am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

villain is 34/19, not very good. probably mostly self-taught. i've stacked him multiple times and he's been playing at me a lot. i haven't seenhim bet the pot before

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $3/$6 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

Hero (SB): $1,269.95
BB: $1,182.70
UTG: $600.00
CO: $615.00
BTN: $621.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $21.00</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $18.00, BB folds

Flop: ($48) Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 2http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($48) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $48.00</font>, Hero calls $48.00

River: ($144) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $144.00</font>, Hero calls $144.00

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

yes?

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

Only you would know if you are not crazy not raising here.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

what is happening [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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what is happening [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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i think they call it playing the player

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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what is happening [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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i think they call it playing the player

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So why even post this?
You said he is 34/19 and you stacked him multiple times. Of course putting a raise in given this description is the correct play, but you seem to have had a reason not to.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

plz to be raising somewhere, probably turn. definitely river. its not like you can't raise-fold this, you know.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

So gross.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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what is happening [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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i think they call it playing the player

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So why even post this?
You said he is 34/19 and you stacked him multiple times. Of course putting a raise in given this description is the correct play, but you seem to have had a reason not to.

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i meant checking the flop and turn. the river call is obviously debatable but i thought a PSB from him meant either top set, a straight, or air. and the stacks are such that i pretty much have to shove if i want to raise, and i think it's a bit more than i'm happy getting it in for with this hand. if there was only 250 behind or so, id just shove it in

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

MAN YOU GOT A SET

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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plz to be raising somewhere, probably turn. definitely river. its not like you can't raise-fold this, you know.

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if i could've raise-folded i would've. i don't think it's possible

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

[censored] i finally figured out who you are on FT

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

Also, playing this hand this way against this villian is very bad. he is a big calling station.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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what is happening [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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i second that, raise everywhere

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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Also, playing this hand this way against this villian is very bad. he is a big calling station.

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not vs me. he had 9 high


were you on my left?

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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Also, playing this hand this way against this villian is very bad. he is a big calling station.

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not vs me. he had 9 high

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i know i just looked it up, but really, dude never [censored] folded. bad in the long run.

edit to were you on my left: yes. fold to my 3-bets i'm a nit :P

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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Also, playing this hand this way against this villian is very bad. he is a big calling station.

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not vs me. he had 9 high

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i know i just looked it up, but really, dude never [censored] folded. bad in the long run.

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yeah but once he checks the flop i dont think he has much to call with

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

Are you crazy for talking about starting coaching and then never reading or replying to PMs?

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

what

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

I'd raise the river 100% of the time here as played. He has nothing to call with most of the time here, but I'd happily get stacked here all day if he happened to hit his A3/36/JJ - all seem very unlikely though, and out of the times he does call I think you're still ahead more often than not.

I don't hate your flop and turn slowplay, but imo there's something to be said about not going to showdown in these spots when he has air (which seems fairly likely). It sounds like he's probably frustrated with you already, this would just be more fuel for the fire. Another remote possibility is him exploding and 3bet bluffing after you make a small (min) river raise.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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plz to be raising somewhere, probably turn. definitely river. its not like you can't raise-fold this, you know.

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if i could've raise-folded i would've. i don't think it's possible

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Agree with this. No way we can get away from the hand vs. this villain if we choose to raise the river.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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am i crazy

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yes

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

i think this is a lot closer than people are giving it credit for. first off, i had a read, and that is that he was more likely to fire at me if i showed weakness than play back at my bets. he had 9 high, so i think that's enough to at least justify how i played it through the river check. even if you don't agree that it's optimal, it's at least close and not wtf horrible

when he bets, it's 144 into 144. he has 300 behind. so it's all-in or call. i'm pot stuck if i make it less, so i should just jam if that's what i want to do. mainly what i'm concerned with is that he bet pot twice for the first time in our many hands together. usually when someone jams the bet pot button it's a bluff or a huge hand. he could definitely have 44 or 22, but i think QJ is unlikely. he definitely can have A3o, 63s, and QQ though. so when he calls my shove, i think i win the pot less than the requisite 50%

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

sometimes i wonder if it's better to deviate from what would seem standard(bet turn or c/r turn) because u think the guys range is so primarily air. and if that is your read, as long as you don't think he is the type to go crazy and put in even more action if you raise than if you call, i don't mind the turn play. it's really situational though, and i would almost certainly get more $ in on the river despite you thinking he probably has air because your hand doesn't look as strong as it is and he might convince himself into calling w/ something stupid, plus you don't have to show down your hand if he has air which is always good. i also think once u get here w/ this line vs. some guys leading river is okay.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

the only problem i see with playing it like that is that he gets to see your cards - garland advocates betting on rivers just so you don't get to showdown

i mean he could have A3 here and he probably never has a set

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

I think my head asploded

I just don't see how we would ever not raise the turn and if we didn't how we are not raising the river for value in this spot.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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he probably never has a set

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I could definitely see this kind of villain show up with QQ here.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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i think this is a lot closer than people are giving it credit for. first off, i had a read, and that is that he was more likely to fire at me if i showed weakness than play back at my bets. he had 9 high, so i think that's enough to at least justify how i played it through the river check.

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Results-oriented much?
Jam the river all day long. If he's as terrible as u say, he might even look u up w/ a pair or two, putting u on a missed flush draw, which ur check-calling could have indicated.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

You know what, I rescind my comment above.. I still stand by an almost always raise the turn thought.. but if we did not, somehow I can see justifying a safe play on end. I guess it is aiiyight.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

I can't ever stop myself from pulling the trigger on this river.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

Played perfect if you c/r the river

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

don't let the turn get checked through, lead? u think he checked the flop and miraculously turned huge with the 4 and is going to bet for you?

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

well I think he'll bet more hands than he checks again. Stuff like T high would be a big part of a bad 34/19's range, and he will stab at it when we check twice.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

omg its 1 buy in first of all, and more importantly YOU HAVE A SET with 2 overs on the board. at least give him a chance to show up with a slow played QK QA QJ KK AA 44 etc

this hand is a huge mistake

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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he probably never has a set

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I could definitely see this kind of villain show up with QQ here.

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He probably shows up with 222 just as often, plus 444 is a possibility as well, although JJJ makes some sense also. I agree with the others though, I think this is a definite river raise as played.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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he probably never has a set

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I could definitely see this kind of villain show up with QQ here.

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He probably shows up with 222 just as often, plus 444 is a possibility as well, although JJJ makes some sense also. I agree with the others though, I think this is a definite river raise as played.

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Not to derail the thread, but I think QQ/44 are way more likely than 22.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

his range here looks like mostly nuts or air

if you had 22 instead of 55 then I'd be pretty happy with just calling the river, but given that he might show up with 22/44 here it's much closer... but I think 22 and 44 both bet the flop more often than QQ does. A3 and 63 probably bet the flop almost always as well.

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

sorry man, seems like a clear -g et more money in at absolutely anytime with 100 bbs

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

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well I think he'll bet more hands than he checks again. Stuff like T high would be a big part of a bad 34/19's range, and he will stab at it when we check twice.

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huh? he stabs the flop with those

Re: am i crazy for thinking that i shouldn\'t raise here?
 

a lot of people check these wet boards back when they whiff entirey, thinking that they get called a ton on the flop... planning on firing the turn if we still show no interest,

it's reasonable to assume he will fire air if we check again on the turn.