OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

Almost 10 hours into August... and it's August at GMT in a few minutes, so a new thread:

[ QUOTE ]


A few guidelines this time, since this is supposed to be an OT thread, not a BBV thread. There's a whole forum for BBV. Expect hilarious bannings if you suck too much to understand this concept.

1. convert your [censored] hands it takes like two seconds and makes it much easier for everyone.

2. Post interesting hands i.e. Playing HU floating the turn with 9 high no draw to set up a river bluff= sexy. Losing a 60/40= who [censored] cares.

3. Posting about variance is fine on a few conditions
1. It includes stats/graphs over a meaningful sample not ZOMG I run bad.
2. If it's a small sample but it's ridiculous run it's acceptable
3. If your name is Indiana you may not post about variance, bad beats or being fabulously wealthy

But can we please get all the mundane beats that all of has have had hundreds of times out of the thread nobody [censored] cares. To paraphrase, stop being whiney little biatches.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

1st whiny little biatch IN!

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

I'm going to post in the July tread while it is still July, present post excepted.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

AUGUST!

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

I'm [censored], it's all over. I called up the girl (for those of you who weren't around in July - nurse from when I was in the hospital three weeks ago who I went on a date with yesterday, am unsure and fear the worst of what she thought of the date, but I'm likely overreacting) at 6 PM and did not leave a message. It is now past midnight and she never called.

So yea, gg life.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

Wtf why no message?

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm [censored], it's all over. I called up the girl (for those of you who weren't around in July - nurse from when I was in the hospital three weeks ago who I went on a date with yesterday, am unsure and fear the worst of what she thought of the date, but I'm likely overreacting) at 6 PM and did not leave a message. It is now past midnight and she never called.

So yea, gg life.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

maybe if she didnt call you back in like 2 weeks. shoulda left a message dipwad. call her back in a few days.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wtf why no message?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, she doesn't leave them so I decided not to this time.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

Lose 3 flips in a row to finish 17th in the 55 6max MTT. I may win everytime if I win just one of these, maybe that's Stars' fear...

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

Dude, it's still July, W T F!

Yugoslav

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

sweet shipped another $700 just now. posting in the results thread before im done playing is so plus ev

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

I know people love to put faces to the names/avatars they see online. So, here's basically what FH looks like (at least after eating freezies).

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6553/mattmf7.png

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know people love to put faces to the names/avatars they see online. So, here's basically what FH looks like (at least after eating freezies).

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6553/mattmf7.png

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL. yea that sucked. luckily i got a porcelain veneer this time so no more busto tooth. the whole reason my tooth chipped in the first place was that my roommate shot me in the mouth from across the dorm with an airsoft gun. so yea, be careful kids

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

it's all fun and games until someone gets shot (and then it's a vice-presidential camping trip)

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

I'm thoroughly convinced that once you turn down sex from a hot girl you will undoubtedly go on some unforseeable cold streak.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

wtf it's still July and the other thread is locked.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thoroughly convinced that once you turn down sex from a hot girl you will undoubtedly go on some unforseeable cold streak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean I need to rethink becoming a poker pro?

Yugoslav

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm thoroughly convinced that once you turn down sex from a hot girl you will undoubtedly go on some unforseeable cold streak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean I need to rethink becoming a poker pro?

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

...idiot savants excepted, of course. You should be fine.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

Hi sttf, my name is Al and everyone who has posted in this thread is prob my friend. Excepent one dude, who is a total douche, but other than that its all good!

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

I don't have a clue what this thread is good for, but I still want in.
I'm in!

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

also I am gonna tell you why I like the people in this thread,

I like Josem b/c he is funny as crap

I like ditch digger cuz he told me I was a donk in a joking way once and I found it funny, plus he is rich




I like Yugo cuz we talk about alot of stuff that I find very interesting

I like slim cuz he supported my sweat threads when I was a noob.


I like hippo b/c we are facebook friends and he is good at beer pong apprently.

I like Devinlake cuz we had alot of fun in LV talking to crap to each other. And he is nice and helps me out alot on aim

I like jjunip b/c we are facebook friends and he is very cool and we have good times on aim


I like Juntmonkey cuz we both post in bbv and I wrote a really funny story once and he was the only other dude who thought it was funny


I like blackize b/c we had a great time in LV and he was totally cool and easy to talk to

I like sippin criss cuz he is always been a good friend to me and always helps me if I need him


I like TFG b/c he is a good poster and he is very entertaining.

I also like the noobie that posted before me, because I love noobs

ok if I didnt mention you in this list I prob hate you

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

How does this all look as a basis for evaluating the High Blinds part of the new STT book? My point is that 1) and 2) are essential to cover in an introductory text. 3) is an element that wasn't so important back in the day, but is now. I'm not sure if it's within the scope. If I could figure out 4) I wouldn't be wasting my time reading books and burying barrels of nuclear waste.

Understanding and executing correct play during the high-blind sections of STTs at the highest levels consists of four steps.

1) Understanding how to execute push/fold/call calculations given the input parameters of chip stacks, prize payouts and hand ranges, and a good prize pool equity model. This is basic STT mathematical mechanics and is very similar to what is considered basic and essential knowledge in every other poker format.

2) How to determine reasonable hand ranges given any information about opponents. This is the “poker” and “feel” element unique to STTs that non-STT players usually lack and it is crucial for an introductory STT text to cover it.

3) The sensitivity of the results to changes in a players hand, his opponents’ hand ranges, and the chip stacks at the table, as well as the limitations of ICM equity modeling and cases requiring special treatment. This is usually what separates the winning high-limit players from the break-even mid-limit players, at least it does today… maybe not two years ago, and might be beyond the intended scope of this book.

4) How to alter all parameters except the exact hands dealt to players in real time. This is what separates the good high-limit players from the absolute best (and usually highest-limit) players, and would be well beyond the scope of an introductory text.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

OK, thoughts please. I don't want to be a dick but I also can't help coming off like one while writing an honest review of the most important section. So anyway... How do I sound like less of dick, if necessary? What, if all, of what I'm saying is just plain wrong. No explanation necessary. Just quote it and wrote "no."

Part 3: High Blind Play
This is easily the most important section of the book, as this is the stage of a STT at which it is least like any other tournament or cash game format. Anyone with even a tenuous grasp on a winning STT game knows prize pool equity trumps chip equity so often that discussing decisions in terms of chip equity can't be effective at determining correct plays. Independent Chip Model (ICM) prize pool equity calculations have passed many rigorous theoretical and practical examinations and have proven sufficiently accurate in the overwhelming majority of high-blind STT situations. ICM modeling is introduced in Part 2 and is covered sufficiently for a beginning player to grasp. Therefore, I’m quite surprised that prize pool equity is largely ignored in Part 3, and when it is applied, it is often applied in a very hand-wavy, qualitative manner nothing like the simple, methodical calculations most good STT players perform on a regular basis.

The Fundamental Theorem of Sit ‘n Go High Blind Play is really more of a good general principle that follows from correct mathematical play. It is too general of a statement. There will be so many “exceptions” that if this “Fundamental Theorem” is taken as such it would cease to look very fundamental at all. There exists a very simple approach to solving high-blind STT problems. The author very obviously knows it well and applies it to a number of his example hands. What I don’t understand is

a) Why this problem-solving methodology isn’t the singular focus of Part 3 until it is fully explained and
b) Why chip equity even shows up at all outside of a comparison to highlight the differences that can arise between it and tournament prize pool equity.

I need to form an argument to debate some of the author’s conclusions in his hand examples, but this is extremely difficult. What I want to argue about is the hand ranges, but the way the material has been presented, it isn’t clear to the reader that opponents’ hand ranges are a critical parameter.


Understanding and executing correct play during the high-blind sections of STTs at the highest levels consists of four steps.

1) Understanding how to execute push/fold/call calculations given the input parameters of chip stacks, prize payouts and hand ranges, and a good prize pool equity model. This is basic STT mathematical mechanics and is very similar to what is considered basic and essential knowledge in every other poker format.
2) How to determine reasonable hand ranges given any information about opponents. This is the “poker” and “feel” element unique to STTs that non-STT players usually lack and it is crucial for an introductory STT text to cover it.
3) The sensitivity of the results to changes in a players hand, his opponents’ hand ranges, and the chip stacks at the table, as well as the limitations of ICM equity modeling and cases requiring special treatment. This is usually what separates the winning high-limit players from the break-even mid-limit players, at least it does today… maybe not two years ago, and might be beyond the intended scope of this book.
4) How to alter all parameters except the exact hands dealt to players in real time. This is what separates the good high-limit players from the absolute best (and usually highest-limit) players, and would be well beyond the scope of an introductory text.

All of Step 1 is in there somewhere. It’s not central to most of the section, but it’s in there. Step 2 is also included, although usually much more qualitative and mushy. Also, it is not demonstrated how critically-important this step is. I doubt Collin needed to get Step 3 to think he knew enough to write an SNG book. He probably gets it himself, but it’s not covered except for a few isolated examples that should be pretty obvious to decent players. Anyone who knows anything about Step 4 won’t share. I’ll leave it at that.

So OK, I think I can reconstruct good high-blind SNG play from the information presented, but so what? I already know how to it. It’s my opinion that a decent poker player new to SNGs would learn something somewhere near proper strategy from reading the Part 3, but would be utterly helpless as to explain why any of lol donkament-looking plays are correct. He would also be utterly helpless against changing game conditions; perhaps changes that have taken place since the book’s author last played SNGs seriously. Without a Crystal Pepsi-clear understanding of the methodology behind these plays, a player will be completely lost.

The implicit collusion and micro-stack sections are decent, although I think it all makes much more sense as a variation on the same calculation we should have already done forty times by the time we get to these sections. The examples really aren't that elucidating, as I think most players could guess the correct play without really knowing or caring why.

The heads-up section, all the preflop stuff should be really simple using our methodology. The instruction needs to focus on a discussion of hand ranges, unexploitable play, and profitable variations from unexploitable play. I don’t like many of his post-flop lines. Hand 3-55 is an example of what I think is a really bad logical flaw that shows up in a lot of the example hands.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
also I am gonna tell you why I like the people in this thread,

I like Josem b/c he is funny as crap

I like ditch digger cuz he told me I was a donk in a joking way once and I found it funny, plus he is rich




I like Yugo cuz we talk about alot of stuff that I find very interesting

I like slim cuz he supported my sweat threads when I was a noob.


I like hippo b/c we are facebook friends and he is good at beer pong apprently.

I like Devinlake cuz we had alot of fun in LV talking to crap to each other. And he is nice and helps me out alot on aim

I like jjunip b/c we are facebook friends and he is very cool and we have good times on aim


I like Juntmonkey cuz we both post in bbv and I wrote a really funny story once and he was the only other dude who thought it was funny


I like blackize b/c we had a great time in LV and he was totally cool and easy to talk to

I like sippin criss cuz he is always been a good friend to me and always helps me if I need him


I like TFG b/c he is a good poster and he is very entertaining.

I also like the noobie that posted before me, because I love noobs

ok if I didnt mention you in this list I prob hate you

[/ QUOTE ]

Well [censored] you too then.

sniff sniff

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

Girl (face 7, body 8) that I exchange texts with has some trouble with words. Like spells "varies" "very's", "Tuesday" "Teusday", and constantly uses the word "confidentiality" in ways that you can't even imagine. She wants to hang out once she comes back into town, but it hurts my brain to have conversations with her. I'm in a slump and she's fairly hot. Are there any drugs that suppress your desire to hand someone a book and direct them to study hall?

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
Girl (face 7, body 8) that I exchange texts with has some trouble with words. Like spells "varies" "very's", "Tuesday" "Teusday", and constantly uses the word "confidentiality" in ways that you can't even imagine. She wants to hang out once she comes back into town, but it hurts my brain to have conversations with her. I'm in a slump and she's fairly hot. Are there any drugs that suppress your desire to hand someone a book and direct them to study hall?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a very widely available drug known as "alcohol" that should do the trick. However, if you overdose on the drug you may suffer "whisky dick" and be unable to reap the benefits of said drug.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Girl (face 7, body 8) that I exchange texts with has some trouble with words. Like spells "varies" "very's", "Tuesday" "Teusday", and constantly uses the word "confidentiality" in ways that you can't even imagine. She wants to hang out once she comes back into town, but it hurts my brain to have conversations with her. I'm in a slump and she's fairly hot. Are there any drugs that suppress your desire to hand someone a book and direct them to study hall?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a very widely available drug known as "alcohol" that should do the trick. However, if you overdose on the drug you may suffer "whisky dick" and be unable to reap the benefits of said drug.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've tried this alcohol that you speak of, and I just end up getting annoyed, going home, and getting on AIM so I can type "lol you wouldnt believe how stupid this girl is that I could have [censored]. i mean srsly...oh man, i think i messed up..."

I'm not good at finding sex

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Girl (face 7, body 8) that I exchange texts with has some trouble with words. Like spells "varies" "very's", "Tuesday" "Teusday", and constantly uses the word "confidentiality" in ways that you can't even imagine. She wants to hang out once she comes back into town, but it hurts my brain to have conversations with her. I'm in a slump and she's fairly hot. Are there any drugs that suppress your desire to hand someone a book and direct them to study hall?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a very widely available drug known as "alcohol" that should do the trick. However, if you overdose on the drug you may suffer "whisky dick" and be unable to reap the benefits of said drug.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've tried this alcohol that you speak of, and I just end up getting annoyed, going home, and getting on AIM so I can type "lol you wouldnt believe how stupid this girl is that I could have [censored]. i mean srsly...oh man, i think i messed up..."

I'm not good at finding sex

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you tried getting her drunk so that you can blame her stupidity on said alcohol? We all do/say stupid [censored] when we're drunk, so if she's drunk you can kinda pretend anything stupid she says or does is a result of being intoxicated.

The other alternative is to strive for the punish [censored] - hit it good and hard with your own needs paramount to punish her for being so [censored] stupid.

Either should work.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any drugs that suppress your desire to hand someone a book and direct them to study hall?



[/ QUOTE ]

If you find it, live poker players across the world will be eager consumers.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

So Tuesday was interesting. I left work late and had planned to meet some friends for a wine tasting so I just went straight there from work and beat most of them there. I had a glass of wine while I waited for everyone to show up. Then I did the tasting. Then I had another glass of wine while we decided on where to have dinner.

We went with sushi, so we went there and I had another glass of wine with dinner. Obviously a good idea.

On the way home, my friend reminded me that he's been to this bar/restaurant/hang out spot we frequent every Tuesday for 2 years and that we have to go by there so he can keep his streak alive. So we go there and he buys me a shot. Then we start talking to the people beside us and they buy us a shot. Then I decide that I should start balling too and buy everyone a round of shots myself. On the way out we ran into my friend Brit, who told us that we shouldn't leave because our other friend Sarah was getting back in town from Costa Rica later. So we said we would come back in a bit.

We headed back to my friends place to check out some records he just bought. They're pretty chill. At some point I get a random text message from ALReturns calling me a pussy. Fair enough.

So we're listening to these records and my friend goes, "they have another one out too that's a little better, I'll put it on". And I swear to God he goes over to the player and drops a Rick Astley vinyl on it and Rick rolls me in real life. I was not prepared for this at all and it took me a while to recover from it. But once I did, I decided that I should rickroll people from 2+2 that I have in my cell phone. So I obviously called Alex back but I got his voicemail. Then I called Citanul and he was kind enough to pick up. I think he hung up about 30 seconds into the Rick roll.

So after this we went back to the bar/restaurant/hang out spot and I had a couple of beers because it seemed like a good idea. Among other things we celebrated August 1st coming in as if it were new years. I also may or may not have bought more shots. I think all-in-all I spent about $140 on the night.

Then I went home and cried when I remembered it was a week night and I had to be at work today.

Then I cried more when I woke up this morning. The end.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

well above average trip report.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

thanks.

also, this just in from talking w/ my friend on gchat. apparently i set up dinner for friday last night with this chick that is ridic hot.

this news makes me feel substantially better about my night.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
ok if I didnt mention you in this list I prob hate you

[/ QUOTE ]

And after I brought back donkeywoman, just for you.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok if I didnt mention you in this list I prob hate you

[/ QUOTE ]

And after I brought back donkeywoman, just for you.

[/ QUOTE ]


its me so...i wouldnt worry too much.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know people love to put faces to the names/avatars they see online. So, here's basically what FH looks like (at least after eating freezies).

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6553/mattmf7.png

[/ QUOTE ]

qft

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok if I didnt mention you in this list I prob hate you

[/ QUOTE ]

And after I brought back donkeywoman, just for you.

[/ QUOTE ]


no no no that was just the people that had posted in this thread thus far

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

This thread is off to an amazing start this month. Nice trip, Wiggs. I felt the same way this morning. I'm doing real work this week, what a travesty.

Thanks for the kind words too, ALR.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

Al, please try to update your list regularly as the thread grows. Thanks.

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST
 

I'm buying a car on a semi-budget. I could save up for a more "baller" car but basically my clutch is going on my Civic & I don't really feel safe in it(due to an accident), so I'd prefer to get a new car now. I looked at a lot of nice used cars but they really have too many miles on them. I'd have to save a bit more to get like a certified Acura TL or TSX(which is what I really want).

Which do you guys prefer out of the two I'm down to? Basically the same car the Rabbit has a bit more pickup do to the torque & it's a I-5. Both drive really nice, equal gas mileage. Lancer has a better warranty(best in the business). The rabbit will be a couple thousand more.

Rabbit:
HP: 146 ft-lbs. @ 4250 rpm
Torque: 170 ft-lbs. @ 3750 rpm

http://www.productwiki.com/upload/im...gen_rabbit.jpg

or

New Lancer:
HP: 152 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 150 hp @ 5000 rpm
http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/arc...ubishi0074.jpg

Re: OT: [censored] thread, August, READ RULES IN TOP POST