River decision with toppair
 

It's my first hand at the table, but I have stats on the preflop 3-better: he is a tight tag 12.1/10.3/2.8 after 1k+ hands. I think I misplayed the river.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2. MP3 posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Re: River decision with toppair
 

I think it's fine, get some value from a lot of ace high hands. I would show more aggression on the flop though, either bet/3bet, or c/r, then lead the turn. His pre-flop 3-bet range is so wide here you can push probably him off his hand. I like the turn c/r as played. I think the river bet is fine.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

That's what I was thinking at the time when I made the bet, but: If he is going to call down with A-high, why I'm I C/R'ing the turn?

Re: River decision with toppair
 

only problem i see with the hand is the raise pre flop

Re: River decision with toppair
 

[ QUOTE ]
only problem i see with the hand is the raise pre flop

[/ QUOTE ]

pfr is standard, esp w/ a poster checking w/his crap hand.

river is an easy bet.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he is going to call down with A-high, why I'm I C/R'ing the turn?


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying you should just bet out, or check-call?

-McGee

Re: River decision with toppair
 

I think preflop is good obv. We get to steal 4 blinds with a solid hand at a discounted rate. I'd rather have a hand with some SD value but I don't think we can pass up this chance to get the pot SH or finished with that amount of money in there already.

I would have check-raised the flop hoping to take it down here or UI on the turn. Well, unless there was no bluff equity against this guy at all. Were you planning to check-raise the turn UI? I think you should if you don't put action in on the flop. Waiting for the turn to c-r does seem more credible, but it costs more, blah, blah. It does give the advantage of getting you a free river card some of the time.

As played, I think a turn value-raise is good.

You don't like the river bet because he won't pay off with a worse hand? I think getting paid off is more likely when draws don't come in and a SD does come in on the river here while the FD doesn't. I think this is a thin value bet getting called by high cards and lower pairs. Getting a bluff out of him doesn't seem likely as he can happily SD high cards for free.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's what I was thinking at the time when I made the bet, but: If he is going to call down with A-high, why I'm I C/R'ing the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding out Ahigh should not be the reason to c/r top pair + flushdraw on the turn. Especially since he won't fold that hand anyway because of the gutshot wheel.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

I was planning to C/R the turn also UI.

I think check/folding this river isn't a bad play either against a villain without history. He is going to take a free showdown with all A-high hands and he is going to bet his overpairs, so you can make an almost perfect decision. If you are betting you are probably losing money from that single bet because he is calling more often with an overpair then A-high (I think).

Re: River decision with toppair
 

[ QUOTE ]
He is going to take a free showdown with all A-high hands and he is going to bet his overpairs, so you can make an almost perfect decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

He should play this way, but they don't always. I'm not sure enough to check/fold given how big you've made the pot, and this is a classic case where bet/fold &gt; check/call.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

I agree that bet/fold &gt;&gt;&gt; check/call, but check/folding could be better I think. In this case I thought that villain was a straight forward tag, so I think it could have been right (obviously no way to know for sure).

Re: River decision with toppair
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are betting you are probably losing money from that single bet because he is calling more often with an overpair then A-high (I think).

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if you have his range a little tight here. I know he is tight, but his PFR stat isn't extremely low. He should relise that you could/should be raising light PF and could/should 3-bang you accordingly. So I'm wondering if he could hold a pair lower than 8 (jack kicker) by the river. Heh, probably not I guess. Obv pocket sevens most likely if that's the case. Meh, a small amount of time I reckon this guy will have a pair smaller than eights.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

C/R the FLOP, lead the TURN.

Peace,
Mygtar

Re: River decision with toppair
 

I'm assuming he is re-isolating here, he will realize you will raise any crap here, so he will 3 bet very light in position.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

[ QUOTE ]
C/R the FLOP, lead the TURN.

Peace,
Mygtar

[/ QUOTE ]
C/R the TURN, call the FLOP is a perfect alternative.

Re: River decision with toppair
 

[ QUOTE ]


I think check/folding this river isn't a bad play either against a villain without history.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe, but given the PF dynamic (you raise light in post, he 3-bets light in response, presumably) I think folding top pair in a pot of this size is a mistake.

I like the hand as played. if you turned a flush, were you planning on donking or C/R? I ask bc sometimes villain will check thru club scare card.