Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

I was impatient to get into a big pot with position at a table full of poor players.

1/2 live. An EP raise to $7, three callers to me on the button with 63d. I call. Big Blind makes it a flat $20. All call. I call, leaving me with a $200 stack.

Pot is $120. Flop is 8d6c4d. BB checks. EP original raiser bets $50. 1 caller and two folds to me on the button. Active players have me covered.

Push flop? Call flop getting about 4.2-to1 on FD, then reassess turn? How does catching middle pair on flop affect decision? How about the fact that the BB rerasier made such an awful PF rearaise ($20 in to a $35 pot) and is yet to act?

I wish that I'd bailed after the raise to $20, but now here I am.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

I like a flop call. The reraise preflop stinks of overpair, meaning you are going to have to hit to take this down (poor players are calling a shove here with overs for sure). I figure you are better off trying to let others buy their way into your pot to bulk it up incase you land.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

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Re: Spare me the "fold PF" sermons

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i didn't read the rest of your post, but i play this all day vs live donkeys on my button.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

Shove it. A ton of your value on these combo draws comes from your fold equity so use it.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

My concern was whether I had any FE, since the pot was larger than my stack once the flop bettor got one caller.

As played I decided to call. PF rerasier folded, so we were three to the turn. Turn paired the 4, and in classic live game fashion, it was checked around to me. Do you take the gift free card or shove remaining $150 (pot is $270) to try to take it down?

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

fold pf donk

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

I shove the flop. folding turn sucks.

btw, i call pf live here.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

I shove flop, but after calling, I def check behind turn. Your fold equity seems pretty low, slightly lower on the turn than it is on the flop.

Problem is on the turn if you get called you're behind, if you get called on the flop you're probably ahead.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

call flop

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

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call flop

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Why?

If you get one caller you've got plenty of dead money in when you're nearly always ahead.

Plus your fold equity is reasonable.

If you get called by an overpair, who cares, you're ahead...let's gambool.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

shove flop

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

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Problem is on the turn if you get called you're behind, if you get called on the flop you're probably ahead.

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Math is awesome. If they don't have a higher diamond, you're a tiny (51%) favorite. This is why you fold preflop: you hit a freaking fantastic flop for your hand, and you're still only slightly ahead or way behind. If there's another draw in the pot you're in massive trouble, but if they both have overpairs you're in good shape. The worst would be one of them having a better draw and the other having a better pair (17% equity in this situation).


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.192% 53.74% 00.45% 532 4.50 { AdAs }
Hand 1: 45.808% 45.35% 00.45% 449 4.50 { 6d3d }

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shove it. A ton of your value on these combo draws comes from your fold equity so use it.

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not saying i hate the play, but how much fold equity do you really think we have here?

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

Fist,

Good point about live play, where fold equity is so severely discounted. The reason I got involved was that the players were underbetting a lot on the post-flop streets (and paying off raises) that I thought I could capitalize on their postflop mistakes. As far as that went, the hand played out as well as I could have hoped, as the my flop call bought me two cards.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

Someone in this pot is going to look you up...

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

shove the flop.

your hand is much better HU than multiway. with a flop shove, you can knock out better hands, better draws, and possibly take it down now.

pf is meh, i prefer it with deeper stacks. w. 100bbs, probably fold.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

I shove here too. If EP raiser isn't total [censored] and you have somewhat tight image, I think you have some FE here. I'm putting EP raiser on JJ,TT,QQ here.

Re: Spare me the \"fold PF\" sermons
 

Fold PF.