Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Honestly, I'm not one to claim online poker is "rigged", and that's not what I'm saying here about Cake. But it does seem something is wrong with their RNG to me, and am wondering if anyone else has noticed inaccuracies.

Particularly the amount of big pairs dealt preflop in 6 handed games. Ive put in 20k plus hands now at the site and it is so bad I have had to completely alter my preflop play because so often when I have JJ or QQ does someone else have QQ or KK etc.

Statistically when you have JJ in a 6 handed game, it SHOULD be the best hand ~95% of the time, but it seems more like 50-60% on Cake. And even if that is an exaggeration which it very may well be, it is no where near 95% and for 20k hands thats a decent sample size.

I would input all my hands into some kind of data analyzer if i could to try to figure out the exact stats but I know not of one that can be used with Cake (coincidence?).

So in summary, I'm just wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences on Cake, cause I've been around the block and haven't seen anything quite like this.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
And even if that is an exaggeration which it very may well be, it is no where near 95% and for 20k hands thats a decent sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]

20k hands is NOT a decent sample size in this case. You get dealt JJ about 1 in 221 which means you likely had ~90 instances of JJ. Hardly statistically significant.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

it is when 40 times its no good and only should be 5 times

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

cake is def rigged

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

If two of the other five players didn't even look at their hands and went to showdown, you would only win 61% of the time with JJ, so your expectations may be a little off.

Have you asked Pokertracker when/if they hope to add Cake to their coverage?

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

I'm not talking about at showdown, I'm talking about preflop, whether of not JJ is the best hand. So only QQ, KK, and AA have it beat. And there are only 5 other players. The odds of 1 of 5 people being dealt any of those three hands = 5%. Hence JJ should be good 95% of time, but it's not.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Yeah it's been asked, here's the thread on Pokertracker

http://www.pokertracker.com/forum/viewto...sc&start=30

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

"I'm not one to claim online poker is rigged"...Id like to find out how many "this site is rigged because im not doing as well as i like posts" start with the above statement,but i cant find the correct data analyzer to achieve this (coincidence?)So in summary, I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed a similar trend.Cause i've been around the block and have seen this a million times about every site that ever existed.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Um, I'm actually killing it at Cake. Im up 600 playin 10c/20c tables in 2 weeks. I didnt mention it cause it has nothing to do with what is happening. I'm winning big for the stakes I play, but that doesn't change that something seems amiss. So please, know what you are talking about before you type nonsense. Thanks.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

"So please, know what you are talking about before you type nonsense"...This made me laugh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But all sarcasm and joking aside,i play there ofton and have noticed nothing unusual.We can agree to disagree.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Then that's all you needed to say. No need to go assuming stuff when you know it not to be true. I was simply asking for people's opinion on this matter and was looking to discuss it in a civilized manner. Your post was quite unnecessary and in no way relevant.

Glad you got a laugh from it, but you did not know what you were talking about, trying to say I'm bringing this up "because im not doing as well as I like".

Thanks for the (useful?) input though.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Sorry to repeat some stuff, but I'm still not quite clear on where we are here.

In rough terms, you're saying that of the (about) 90 times you were dealt JJ, (or are you being dealt JJ more often than expected, as well?), and of the (about) 35 times that you might have expected to be beaten by some hand or other, in fact you were beaten (about) 40 times by a higher pair?

(My figures don't add up yet, obviously, so please do a "fyp" to help me further understand your premise. Thanks.)

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

i think there might be cake employees playing there who are rigging it for themselves

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to repeat some stuff, but I'm still not quite clear on where we are here.

In rough terms, you're saying that of the (about) 90 times you were dealt JJ, (or are you being dealt JJ more often than expected, as well?), and of the (about) 35 times that you might have expected to be beaten by some hand or other, in fact you were beaten (about) 40 times by a higher pair?

(My figures don't add up yet, obviously, so please do a "fyp" to help me further understand your premise. Thanks.)

[/ QUOTE ]

No, these stats are only concerning preflop hands. If someone has a starting hand worse then JJ and ends up beating my pocket jacks that is not the issue here.

It seems that when I have JJ or QQ preflop, an unreasonable amount of time someone else has a higher pocket pair. Statistically, if you have JJ preflop 6 handed, there is a 95% chance of it being the best hand at the table BEFORE the flop. In other words, there is a 95% chance no one has QQ, KK, or AA.

But this does not seem to be the case at Cake and this is purely speculation on my part because I cant find any program that can analyze my hands from Cake. So I figured Id see if any other players there felt the same way. Hopefully that clarifies.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
it is when 40 times its no good and only should be 5 times

[/ QUOTE ]

So out of those 20k hands, when you had JJ how many times did another player show AA/KK/QQ?

You seem to be insinuating it's about 40 times but that's improbable.

So tell us, how many times?

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

If Cake is rigged, then it's rigged in my favor.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Also did you ever consider that the acronym might mean "rigged number generator?"

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

OP, in case u haven't figured it out yet, everyone in this thread is making fun of you.
Please stop posting, or take your discussion over to Pocket Fives where you'll find a level of discourse commensurate with the high-brow issues you raise here.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP, in case u haven't figured it out yet, everyone in this thread is making fun of you.
Please stop posting, or take your discussion over to Pocket Fives where you'll find a level of discourse commensurate with the high-brow issues you raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well let's see, considering I don't care what people think about me that I meet in person, I don't think some random strangers "making fun of me" in some online poker forum is something I'm going to lose sleep over. Thanks for the warning.

But honestly I'm not surprised it would be so difficult for people to have an actual conversation.

As for how many hands I have actually seen someone with a bigger pocket pair, as I have said, I don't know because I don't have a program to analyze my 22k hands. This is just what I have felt has happened. If you don't have anything to contribute to the thread you can just stay out, it's not that hard to do.

I'm not bitching, complaining, saying not to play there or that it's rigged. IM JUST POSING A DAMN QUESTION AND LOOKING FOR SOME RATIONAL RESPONSES, but so far they have been few and far between.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
If Cake is rigged, then it's rigged in my favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, perhaps, seeing as I'm winnning there, but this is not the issue. You people are really missing the query of this thread.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OP, in case u haven't figured it out yet, everyone in this thread is making fun of you.
Please stop posting, or take your discussion over to Pocket Fives where you'll find a level of discourse commensurate with the high-brow issues you raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well let's see, considering I don't care what people think about me that I meet in person, I don't think some random strangers "making fun of me" in some online poker forum is something I'm going to lose sleep over. Thanks for the warning.

But honestly I'm not surprised it would be so difficult for people to have an actual conversation.

As for how many hands I have actually seen someone with a bigger pocket pair, as I have said, I don't know because I don't have a program to analyze my 22k hands. This is just what I have felt has happened. If you don't have anything to contribute to the thread you can just stay out, it's not that hard to do.

I'm not bitching, complaining, saying not to play there or that it's rigged. IM JUST POSING A DAMN QUESTION AND LOOKING FOR SOME RATIONAL RESPONSES, but so far they have been few and far between.

[/ QUOTE ]
OP i may be so inclined to agree with you!

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

You have zero evidence of an improbable but not impossible event. Others have said they do no share your experience. You are probably suffering selective memory.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have zero evidence of an improbable but not impossible event. Others have said they do no share your experience. You are probably suffering selective memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to present evidence to convince people, just expressing my opinion and asking others to express theres (respectfully and relevantly). Why is this concept so difficult to abide by?

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have zero evidence of an improbable but not impossible event. Others have said they do no share your experience. You are probably suffering selective memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to present evidence to convince people, just expressing my opinion and asking others to express theres (respectfully and relevantly). Why is this concept so difficult to abide by?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because poker is rigged threads are never going to get a good response in the zoo w/o any kind of hard evidence.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

It's not a poker is rigged thread, OMG how many times do i need to say this

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Poker is not rigged, but I went through 125 BBs in limit at Cake faster than I ever have before and won't play there again. Call it psychological or what you will.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Please people stop saying it's not rigged, because I'm NOT saying it is. I'm saying I think something may be inaccurate with their RNG, that's all.

But I also believe all RNG's are inherently flawed, because I don't believe a computer program written by a human can truly be 100% random. I think there are still patterns, and Cake's seem to be worse than others. I can't believe how much trouble everyone is having with understanding what I'm saying.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

i always lol at poker is rigged threads but im about 75% certain that cake is actually rigged, im not the only one either.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

cake is no more rigged than any other site

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
cake is no more rigged than any other site

[/ QUOTE ]

Well...everyone knows FT is, so I guess Cake is also in that logic

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

All I've ever been told by cake poker is I already have an account, but never what the account info is.

So rigged.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
As for how many hands I have actually seen someone with a bigger pocket pair, as I have said, I don't know because I don't have a program to analyze my 22k hands. This is just what I have felt has happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, what sort of responses are you looking for? Other people to say, "Yes, I've had that feeling, too"? Or, "No, I've never felt that"?

I'd bet my boots that there are other players on Cake who feel that almost every time they've received JJ they've won, so they think they should always cap on every street, whatever the board.

Until you go through your 22,000 hands and come back here with facts, talking about what you think you've noticed is mainly a pointless exercise.

And, regrettably, even if you could be bothered to go through your hands, such a relatively small sample won't prove anything, either, to be frank. What has already happened over a "few" past hands doesn't necessarily mean that similar apparent anomalies will occur in the future.

By the way, it would seem sensible for all sites to keep a record of all cards dealt, for audit purposes and for checking their deal is random in the long term. I don't see that this should be "secret" information, (assuming the deal is fair). Why not write to them to ask if they will give you the exact numbers for this error you feel you have discovered - that you feel their RNG stops selecting random cards to deal to other players whenever you receive JJ and picks out QQ or KK or AA and gives them to a random player in your 6-handed game? It will be interesting for all of us to read their reply, (even if they don't give you the figures).

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If Cake is rigged, then it's rigged in my favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, perhaps, seeing as I'm winnning there, but this is not the issue. You people are really missing the query of this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were winning as big as you say you are then you wouldn't be bitching and complaining about the RNG.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If Cake is rigged, then it's rigged in my favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, perhaps, seeing as I'm winnning there, but this is not the issue. You people are really missing the query of this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were winning as big as you say you are then you wouldn't be bitching and complaining about the RNG.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you weren't so ignorant you'd realize that I'm not bitching or complaining.

$475 > $1,006 15 days, fyp

jackass

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
cake is no more rigged than any other site

[/ QUOTE ]

Well...everyone knows FT is, so I guess Cake is also in that logic

[/ QUOTE ]



could be

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Cliff Notes:

OP is a fish who thinks the RNG at Cake is messed up. He thinks this b/c he has a vast database of 20K hands where his JJ keeps running into bigger pairs. He doesn't have any idea of how many times this has actually happened though. He just "knows" that something funny is going on though b/c he can't possibly be having selective memory.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
Cliff Notes:

OP is a fish who thinks the RNG at Cake is messed up. He thinks this b/c he has a vast database of 20K hands where his JJ keeps running into bigger pairs. He doesn't have any idea of how many times this has actually happened though. He just "knows" that something funny is going on though b/c he can't possibly be having selective memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot "It's the RNG but it's not rigged".

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

[ QUOTE ]
But I also believe all RNG's are inherently flawed, because I don't believe a computer program written by a human can truly be 100% random. I think there are still patterns, and Cake's seem to be worse than others. I can't believe how much trouble everyone is having with understanding what I'm saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good RNG's are not flawed. They use some physical events, like thermal noise or mouse moves/clicks/etc. by players as input to the generators. As one example, read a description on

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

Even badly written, but honest, random generators won't produce JJ facing higher pairs more often than it should be. 22K hands is a small sample to reach a conclusion about this scenario, but it's large enough to raise a suspicion. So what you really need to do, as other posters suggested, is to ask some friend to write a trivial program to parse your hands and post specific statistics on how many hands you had JJ or QQ and how many times somebody had a higher pair in these hands. You can even do this manually in about an hour using a simple program like notepad.

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

Here is a link that explains the problems with software based RNGs. Pokerstars and UB use a hardware based solution where as cake poker and most other poker sites do not.

http://www.cigital.com/papers/downlo...r_gambling.php

Maybe in the future, all poker sites will use hardware based RNGs.

cheers
Boon

Re: Cake Poker\'s RNG
 

OP, they call them "suicide jacks" for a good reason.

End of discussion.