Re-Randing
 

Debate time.

I've spoken to a bunch of different mods and have gotten opinions from both sides on this one...

(OH will remain neutral in his stance and will refuse to give out any other names or opinions)

GAME MODS: Have you ever reranded a game because you didn't like the outcome? Is it something that should be allowed or not? If you were building a program, would it be set up to allow mods to rerand before officially sending PMs?

If you believe it's not ok, no explanation required.
If you believe it is, where do you draw the line?

And of course, a poll:

Re: Re-Randing
 

no, u shouldn't re-rand to get teams u like; it should be completely random

Re: Re-Randing
 

Re-randing selectively does not produce random results. I've never done it (though when Shortline makes those puppydog eyes when he gets randed villager, I'm tempted), and I don't think it should ever be supported.

Re: Re-Randing
 

I'll be honest, when I mod, I just choose whoever I want to be power roles in that moment, whatever I feel will be fun at the time.

I don't see how it matters to the players, I don't pick my friends or anything like that, but I don't sit there and hit a rand button

If you don't like it, feel free to not sign up for one of my games...given that I mod so much :P

Re: Re-Randing
 

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] traz

Re: Re-Randing
 

now that we know that; it'll affect how we play in games u mod

Re: Re-Randing
 

no it won't, because it's still random in my head

Re: Re-Randing
 

you can't out metagame me, duh. Trying would be futile

Re: Re-Randing
 

sometimes i'll just pick random numbers (if i haven't seen signup list yet) and then look at list to see who those correlate to, instead of using random.org...so i'll say "2/4/6 will be seer/wolf/wolf" or something like that; but 90% of the time i use random.org

Re: Re-Randing
 

[ QUOTE ]
sometimes i'll just pick random numbers (if i haven't seen signup list yet) and then look at list to see who those correlate to, instead of using random.org...so i'll say "2/4/6 will be seer/wolf/wolf" or something like that; but 90% of the time i use random.org

[/ QUOTE ]

now that we know that; it'll affect how we play 10% of the time in games u mod

Re: Re-Randing
 

I use my spreadsheet every single time. I press the Big Button once and start AIMing.

Re: Re-Randing
 

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sometimes i'll just pick random numbers (if i haven't seen signup list yet) and then look at list to see who those correlate to, instead of using random.org...so i'll say "2/4/6 will be seer/wolf/wolf" or something like that; but 90% of the time i use random.org

[/ QUOTE ]

now that we know that; it'll affect how we play 10% of the time in games u mod

[/ QUOTE ]I'm an odd number, I can't be a wolf!

Re: Re-Randing
 

eh, it's just a game, I'll have fun either way.

Re: Re-Randing
 

hmmm, i thought i'd replied to this.

anyway, anything other than sticking with the original rand is horrible,

Re: Re-Randing
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmmm, i thought i'd replied to this.

anyway, anything other than sticking with the original rand is horrible,

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one to hear it, etc etc

Re: Re-Randing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmmm, i thought i'd replied to this.

anyway, anything other than sticking with the original rand is horrible,

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one to hear it, etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Because even if you think it's random, it won't be.

Re: Re-Randing
 

I always rerand till shorty's a wolf and traz is a seer

Re: Re-Randing
 

that works too

Re: Re-Randing
 

[ QUOTE ]
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hmmm, i thought i'd replied to this.

anyway, anything other than sticking with the original rand is horrible,

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one to hear it, etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Because even if you think it's random, it won't be.

[/ QUOTE ]
kokiri, if the shuffle machine spits the cards out suited and in order, was it random?

Re: Re-Randing
 

I use a deck of cards, highest card = seer, 2nd and 3rd highest cards = wolves.
The last turbo i randed I asked a friend of mine on MSN to give me two numbers from 1 to 9, then I asked her for another number. I dont really like that method since its not totally random( more chance that the players that singed up in the middle will be wolves.)

Re: Re-Randing
 

[ QUOTE ]
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hmmm, i thought i'd replied to this.

anyway, anything other than sticking with the original rand is horrible,

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one to hear it, etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Because even if you think it's random, it won't be.

[/ QUOTE ]
kokiri, if the shuffle machine spits the cards out suited and in order, was it random?

[/ QUOTE ]Inapplicable analogy.

If the dealer checks the top 5 cards of the deck and re-shuffles if he doesn't like them, then he's reducing the randomness of the process.

Re: Re-Randing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
hmmm, i thought i'd replied to this.

anyway, anything other than sticking with the original rand is horrible,

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one to hear it, etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Because even if you think it's random, it won't be.

[/ QUOTE ]
kokiri, if the shuffle machine spits the cards out suited and in order, was it random?

[/ QUOTE ]

i fail to see the relevance

Re: Re-Randing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
hmmm, i thought i'd replied to this.

anyway, anything other than sticking with the original rand is horrible,

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one to hear it, etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Because even if you think it's random, it won't be.

[/ QUOTE ]
kokiri, if the shuffle machine spits the cards out suited and in order, was it random?

[/ QUOTE ]Inapplicable analogy.

If the dealer checks the top 5 cards of the deck and re-shuffles if he doesn't like them, then he's reducing the randomness of the process.

[/ QUOTE ]
doesnt matter, the players wouldnt know

Re: Re-Randing
 

Neil and I have had some shuffling discussions over the past few days.

You need to make sure that you're not introducing any bias into the shuffle. Otherwise it's not producing true randomness.

/nit

Re: Re-Randing
 

if players don't know, it doesn't matter tho

but cherry picking is different

Re: Re-Randing
 

ZOMG you cheat is so the obvious answer here.

Deliberately reranding is awful, because the game of werewolf is based off METAGAME and (ppl being randed villagers and wolves).

Re: Re-Randing
 

I'd say it's bad if you pick your best friends to be seer, or stuff liket hat

but if you just choose whoever vs hitting a rand button, it makes no difference

it's all in your heads

Re: Re-Randing
 

You know, we get those posts saying, "You're always a wolf."

What if it's actually true due to a non-random shuffling algorithm.

Re: Re-Randing
 

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if players don't know, it doesn't matter tho

but cherry picking is different

[/ QUOTE ]It matters if the human skewing the distribution is doing so for a reason that affects the game. I mean, someone who wants the game to end quickly can make me and LC wolves every single time...

Re: Re-Randing
 

I am very against the idea of reranding.

Re: Re-Randing
 

right; but not if it's a random method that is just not truly random...ie flawed method; no knowledge of players

Re: Re-Randing
 

Traz is just being lazy.

Obviously, his rand isn't perfect, (because of his subconscious).

Actually, I'm probably going to avoid IMing traz to mod my turbos.

Re: Re-Randing
 

this is a loopy argument

Re: Re-Randing
 

Also, deliberately reranding = cherry picking, DYSW?

Re: Re-Randing
 

yeah, non-perfect rands are fine

it's when u know the players that matters

Re: Re-Randing
 

i guess it would be fine as long as the players truly believed you were being random, right? then it wouldn't affect the meta-game.

Re: Re-Randing
 

a flawed RNG, such as picking numbers in your head, is not perfect but unlikely to do any real harm.

If I knew people were reranding, or picking who you feel like, it would impact the game in my view pretty much to the extent I wouldn't want to play. And if I don't know, that's just like the waiter pissing in my soup.

Re: Re-Randing
 

re-randing to get a "better" game is unfair to the players. If someone just picks people seemingly at random that's fine, although pure rand is better.

If I know someone did not use rand then I can probably find a few wolf matchups that are less likely to occur, all newb wolf team for instance.

Re: Re-Randing
 

wow, this happens?

Re: Re-Randing
 

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wow, this happens?

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see, now it's not ok to rerand, since now people know you do it :-)