HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

10/20 w 2k eff
shes hitting cards but def outplaying me at this point. up a few buys on me

hero raises K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] duck calls

flop K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] check check
turn J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] she check, i bet 120, she raise to 360, i call
river 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] she check, i think and bet 680, she crai

Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero : wow sick
Hero : nice play
fslexcduck: weird line

hero?

!!

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

y would u bet this river??

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

why would u put up a prop and then not book the action?

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

this is a fold if she was bluffing she would lead this river cause of turn action

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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this is a fold if she was bluffing she would lead this river cause of turn action

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what does this even mean??

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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y would u bet this river??

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welllllll its not a bluff!

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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this is a fold if she was bluffing she would lead this river cause of turn action

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what does this even mean??

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Think he means that if you were bluffing you would bet the river instead of going for a checkraise (for fear of the river being checked down). It's definitely not true, though.

I'm not a big fan of the river bet unless it's specifically to induce some crazy c/r ai. When she checkraises the turn I think her range is either hands that beat us like two pair, straight, better Kx, or bluffs/semibluffs. Given that the river changes nothing I don't see any value in a bet. Bluffs/semibluffs will be forced to fold (or make a heroic c/r ai) and everything else will own us. What were you expecting Duck to call the river with after check-raising the turn? Could she play QJ like this? Seems unlikely, and she would probably be more likely to c/r ai with QJ than check call, IMO.

As played I'd fold the river.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

sick hand

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

Hate this river bet but I call for sure

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

Hate this river

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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y would u bet this river??

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so your river value betting range isn't polaraized?

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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y would u bet this river??

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so your river value betting range isn't polaraized?

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hahahahahahhahaha

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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y would u bet this river??

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so your river value betting range isn't polaraized?

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she folds worse and calls w/ better though so.......

or c/r too

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

btw I don't think betting the river in order to induce a c/r is the worst idea in the world, but I would only do it if I was really in the zone (remember the thread where Jman bets his three pair vs antonius and calls the c/r ai?)

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

I hate this river bet unless it's specifically to induce a bluff c/r. Given the action and that you did bet tho, i would strongly towards a call. I can see her making a semi-bluff (or knowing her, straight up bluff [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) on the turn here and checking the river intending to give up. Given that you did not re pop the turn, it's hard to give you credit for a value betting hand on the river and i can see her changing her mind and pulling this. Another thing is that your turn call, followed by what should be a considered a pretty innocuous river card, would make me think she would just bet here to get value if she had a hand she wanted to put in with. If she really pulled this off with a better hand, sick kudos to her.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

my turn line looks weak/drawy so i make thin value bet on river. yea its not so great.. i thought a while before making it

anyway my line def looks weak so perhaps she knows she wont get paid off with a river lead, and only chance of getting paid is by me bluffing. but then instead of c/c she c/r which totally confused me as either big hand twopr+ or bluff

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

oh man - for value w KT would be hot hot hot.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

like river, now read soul.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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this is a fold if she was bluffing she would lead this river cause of turn action

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what does this even mean??

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it means that if u were bluffing the river u would lead this river cause u took the lead on the turn

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

the only value in betting this river is calling the check raise

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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this is a fold if she was bluffing she would lead this river cause of turn action

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what does this even mean??

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it means that if u were bluffing the river u would lead this river cause u took the lead on the turn

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unless she figured he folds no made hands...so she checks and then decides that he has to be bluffing a missed draw himself, ergo, c/r bluff

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

:/ i agree w/ crablar. if i bet this riv im definitely calling the raise - the river bet is dubious though.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

bet flop? she was checkraising those dry boards a ton

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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bet flop? she was checkraising those dry boards a ton

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sometimes, of course, but def don't bet this flop 100%. in fact I probably check here most of the time to help blend with A high or bottom pair

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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oh man - for value w KT would be hot hot hot.

[/ QUOTE ]dude, no

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

bet/folding this is incredibly bad... that said, i think K7 is rarely good here

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

Interesting hand - V could be up to anything here heads-up, but I think it is a fold.

My first read is that she has 2 pr or better on turn. She puts you on a draw after your turn action (like A10) and checked river to induce a bluff.

Hence, her AI is a value bet hoping to get called by top pair or worse.

On the other hand, she may have read weakness somehow in your bet on river and decided to do a 2nd attempt to re-bluff her own miss.

I fold and give her credit for a good play even if she has air.

Results?

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

do you think she would pull a big, risky bluff like this on a HU opponent that is down a few buyins? I doubt most people would, but maybe. but i would just check the river though, a little too thin i think.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

ich check the river

as played it is a fold you beat nothing but a bluff and this doesnot look like a bluff to me


RESULTS???!??!

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

The river bet seems bad now, but it is sometimes a bet I make as well and realize a split second later that I shouldn't have bet (not just cause of cr). I would call now though.

Also why are you playing at this table? You said you lost a few buyins and have been getting outplayed up to this point... I would have left a long time ago.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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do you think she would pull a big, risky bluff like this on a HU opponent that is down a few buyins? I doubt most people would, but maybe. but i would just check the river though, a little too thin i think.

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I agree it makes it slightly less likely she is bluffing.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

she has 52 obv.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

the only way you should be betting this river is if you have the intention of calling a shove/inducing some sort of c/r. call

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

I dont mind the river too much, I call the check raise for sure. Dont have much 1st hand knowledge of how duck plays, but I assume she is capable of big/tricky bluffs and this line looks really bluffy to me.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

results?

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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she has 52 obv.

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lol, I'd fold

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

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I dont mind the river too much, I call the check raise for sure. Dont have much 1st hand knowledge of how duck plays, but I assume she is capable of big/tricky bluffs and this line looks really bluffy to me.

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You may not have noticed that in the chat, she says "weird line" while greg's still tanking

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

yea, I noticed that dont really know what to make of it, I mean usually it would mean strength, and I guess if that is enough of a reason for us to be sure that she is not bluffing than we can fold. However, I think without that comment it is an easy call, and her line looks a lot like a missed draw trying to get a king to fold.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

ive seen vanessa do this with air and with the nuts and with 2 pair before. she plays weird, but i dont think she puts hero on a king, which is pretty important imo. it makes me lean towards calling her shove here.

Re: HU vs fslexduck double c/r ownage
 

he should be calling w/ a hand like JT too then...which is what makes the river bet bad cause i doubt he ever VBs JT on the river.