Very interesting situation
 

Ok, I'm sitting shorthanded at a $0.50/$1.00 PLO game on Stars when all of a sudden amichaiKK sits down with $37 (short-buy). I was about to leave the table - because I know amichaiKK is a lot better than I am - when he says "im on tilt...pot every time pf" (meaning he is going to raise/re-raise the pot every time preflop).

What is our range here? I have two interesting hands below where in the first hand I got him all in preflop with AAxx and he ended up hitting two pair on the flop and doubling up. The VERY NEXT HAND I pretty much stack him when I hit my ace high flush on a paired board (figured there was less than a 25% chance he had a boat).

Funny side note - amichaiKK ended up playing some donk HU when amichai had like $4 left after I took most of it... ami kept potting/re-potting preflop and donk basically blinded away 40BB to him.

Hand 1:

PokerStars Game #11123234018: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/07/25 - 03:45:50 (ET)
Table 'Saldanha II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 5: MercuryXk ($12.10 in chips)
Seat 6: Max Raises ($97.40 in chips)
Seat 9: amichaiKK ($35.70 in chips)
MercuryXk: posts small blind $0.50
Max Raises: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Max Raises [8s Ah 4d Ad]
amichaiKK: raises $2.50 to $3.50
MercuryXk: folds
Max Raises said, "gl"
Max Raises: raises $7.50 to $11
amichaiKK: raises $22.50 to $33.50
Max Raises: raises $63.90 to $97.40 and is all-in
amichaiKK: calls $2.20 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [6s Qc 4h]
*** TURN *** [6s Qc 4h] [2d]
peluchesjb joins the table at seat #2
*** RIVER *** [6s Qc 4h 2d] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Max Raises: shows [8s Ah 4d Ad] (a pair of Aces)
amichaiKK: shows [7d 2s 6c Qd] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
amichaiKK collected $70.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $71.90 | Rake $1
Board [6s Qc 4h 2d 7h]
Seat 5: MercuryXk (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Max Raises (big blind) showed [8s Ah 4d Ad] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: amichaiKK (button) showed [7d 2s 6c Qd] and won ($70.90) with two pair, Queens and Sevens

[[ Did I play this hand correctly? ]]



Hand 2:

PokerStars Game #11123237402: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/07/25 - 03:46:21 (ET)
Table 'Saldanha II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 5: MercuryXk ($11.60 in chips)
Seat 6: Max Raises ($61.70 in chips)
Seat 9: amichaiKK ($70.90 in chips)
Max Raises: posts small blind $0.50
amichaiKK: posts big blind $1
peluchesjb: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Max Raises [9h Ah 8h Ts]
MercuryXk: raises $1 to $2
Max Raises: calls $1.50
amichaiKK: raises $6 to $8
MercuryXk: folds
Max Raises: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [4h 3h 3c]
Max Raises said, "AA obv worse than Q6"
Max Raises: checks
amichaiKK: bets $17.10
Max Raises: calls $17.10
*** TURN *** [4h 3h 3c] [6h]
Max Raises: checks
amichaiKK: bets $45.80 and is all-in
Max Raises: calls $36.60 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [4h 3h 3c 6h] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Max Raises: shows [9h Ah 8h Ts] (a flush, Ace high)
amichaiKK: mucks hand
Max Raises collected $124.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $125.40 | Rake $1
Board [4h 3h 3c 6h Jc]
Seat 5: MercuryXk (button) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Max Raises (small blind) showed [9h Ah 8h Ts] and won ($124.40) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 9: amichaiKK (big blind) mucked [6c 5d 2h Qh]

Re: Very interesting situation
 

this is interesting, of course we all know how easily AA can be cracked in plo, my advice would to avoid this situation completely and play in a game where the players are taking the game seriously. my vote is never go all in preflop in plo, this is not to say i would not have done the same.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

whats the question

Re: Very interesting situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
whats the question

[/ QUOTE ]


This post wasn't really centered around a single question, just trying to start a discussion.

I guess I'd like to know what your preflop strategy would be? Mine was mainly limp into him and call his raise and to fold marginal hands I'd normally limp with because the pot sized raise was coming right after me.

Should I have seen the flop with my AA hand or was getting it in preflop the same play you would have made?

Re: Very interesting situation
 

I would say that against a single opponent getting it in preflop is always ok. The only time you're a dog is if he has an AA with better side cards like AATJ double suited.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

what is discussion about? oO
you surel should go all in with AA vs donk preflop without even thinking abou (if you arent deep much, depends of your bankroll - i.e. in a long run you win anyway but you probably dont want to lose very deep stack when you are 60% favorite)

Re: Very interesting situation
 

if he's just raising at every possible opportunity, and you're even semi-bankrolled for it, i'd just get it in real light with him PF (he's got a random hand everytime, any 2 broadway hand or better i think i'd just get it in with no problem. If you have less of a bankroll don't reraise PF (w/o AA/KK/something you dont mind getting in pf even with a short br), and just repot his flop bet when you connect decently (two pair+ or 1pair+draw)

Re: Very interesting situation
 

I wonder why he decided that $37 was the proper amount to tilt off.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he's just raising at every possible opportunity, and you're even semi-bankrolled for it, i'd just get it in real light with him PF (he's got a random hand everytime, any 2 broadway hand or better i think i'd just get it in with no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's just dumb. omaha hand values. pot limit.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

Hand 1 is ridiculously standard. I would have gotten it in with AA-JJ regardless of sidecards and other pairs would depend on sidecards. It wouldn't surprise me if getting it in with TT and possibly 99/88 would be profitable; I just don't feel like running the numbers right now. I wouldn't necessarily get it in with unpaired hands given his stack; I'd prefer to just see a flop and make my decision there.

I'd just get it in on the flop in hand 2, otherwise you're left with a crappy spot on the turn when you brick completely (though I'd be calling the turn if you paired against someone playing like this).

Re: Very interesting situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is interesting, of course we all know how easily AA can be cracked in plo, my advice would to avoid this situation completely and play in a game where the players are taking the game seriously. my vote is never go all in preflop in plo, this is not to say i would not have done the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

A+ material.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

thats sure everyone's game but if you can bet with 60% of winning and you dont, you are wasting some money
and i dont see any *lame* to set up looser
all in preflop with AA
except deep stakes as said
thats all

Re: Very interesting situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he's just raising at every possible opportunity, and you're even semi-bankrolled for it, i'd just get it in real light with him PF (he's got a random hand everytime, any 2 broadway hand or better i think i'd just get it in with no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's just dumb. omaha hand values. pot limit.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I dont get it. So you shouldnt get it in pf if you think you're getting it w/ an edge? i realize edges are much smaller pf in omaha, but they still exist right?? The guy is getting it in blind pf, and probably won't pot-repot non-stop after the flop when he can see that his hand has little-no shot.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is interesting, of course we all know how easily AA can be cracked in plo, my advice would to avoid this situation completely and play in a game where the players are taking the game seriously. my vote is never go all in preflop in plo, this is not to say i would not have done the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

A+ material.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah quality advise if you dont like money.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is interesting, of course we all know how easily AA can be cracked in plo, my advice would to avoid this situation completely and play in a game where the players are taking the game seriously. my vote is never go all in preflop in plo, this is not to say i would not have done the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

A+ material.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah quality advise if you dont like money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. So you're never better than a 60/40 pf in PLO, we understand that; however, mathematically, you are still ahead by 20% when you are holding AAxx, not getting all your money in preflop when you can is simply being "scared money." If you don't think this way, you are playing too high for you BR and need to move down.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

is it cheating to go to propokertools and check if your hand beats a random hand all in preflop? This is what I would do if I was unsure.

You might have a bit better of an edge just calling sometimes in position, depends if he is going to play badly postflop or not. I would just play the pots preflop though and have some fun.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

[ QUOTE ]

I dont get it. So you shouldnt get it in pf if you think you're getting it w/ an edge? i realize edges are much smaller pf in omaha, but they still exist right?? The guy is getting it in blind pf, and probably won't pot-repot non-stop after the flop when he can see that his hand has little-no shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not just a small edge you have, it's a tiny little edge and some of the time (if you widen your range that much) you won't even have an edge. I thought it was clear that he was all potting everything postflop too, but even if he wasn't it doesn't really change things. Of course I would get all in with aces, kings, and big AKQJ type hands where our edge is probably 60/40 ish. But less than that, what's the point? Let him raise preflop everytime and pot every flop. Instead getting the whole stack in as a 53/47 favorite or whatever, howbout get a small portion of our stack in preflop with the same edge and then get the rest in as a huge favorite or a lock postflop.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

well the guy plays much better than OP postflop (apparently) so you can't expect to have much of an edge there even if you select your hands better. OP doesn't mention him potting every hand postflop.

Re: Very interesting situation
 

mmk maybe i just assumed he was