4 large bets
 

These may not be interesting, but w/e. My lines and frequencies are not the same against regulars, so its prob fine posting these. Hand 1, squeeze because he is very loose. Can have any 9/8/7 here. Hand 2, he is 34/24 laggy, but doesn't seem good. I have been quiet. I don't do this often, but sometimes I get out of lines in spots where its hard for me to be bluffing. Hands 3 and 4 they are just your normal slightly loose and weak players.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $293.55
Hero (BB): $353.80
UTG: $77.75
CO: $454.80
BTN: $191.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $8.00</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $7.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $36.00</font>, CO folds, SB calls $28.00

Flop: ($80) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $55.00</font>, SB calls $55.00

Turn: ($190) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $262.80</font>, ($202 total)

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $207.15
BB: $170.95
UTG: $254.10
MP: $277.25
Hero (CO): $262.75
BTN: $200.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $8.00</font>, MP folds, Hero calls $8.00, BTN folds, SB calls $7.00, BB folds

Flop: ($26) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $20.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $56.00</font>, SB folds, UTG calls $36.00

Turn: ($138) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $198.75</font>

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $98.00
BB: $200.00
UTG: $184.75
MP: $308.70
CO: $164.70
Hero (BTN): $202.30

Preflop: Hero is dealt 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $8.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $24.00</font>, 2 folds, CO calls $16.00

Flop: ($51) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $35.00</font>, CO calls $35.00

Turn: ($121) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($121) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $143.30</font>,

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

Hero (SB): $726.55
BB: $287.80
UTG: $92.75
MP: $202.70
CO: $216.60
BTN: $316.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
4 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.00</font>, BB calls $4.00

Flop: ($12) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $8.00</font>, BB calls $8.00

Turn: ($28) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $24.00</font>, BB calls $24.00

River: ($76) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $688.55</font>, ($250 total)

Re: 4 large bets
 

1: at first glance i hated, but thinking about it i really like it a lot. considering you squeezed pre he can only really cal l wiht 66-tt. nice hand.

2: i dont really like. hes not folding an overpair too often imo, which i think is a lot of his range

3: i like it

4: i dont really see a point

Re: 4 large bets
 

I don't like 2, do like 3, and am confused why you pushed in 4.

What are the numbers in brackets?

Re: 4 large bets
 

effective bet size

Re: 4 large bets
 

gotta work on that image with the hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], jk obv

4. i think hes going to fold a lot but i think hed also fold to a normal size 3 barrell.
3. def think hes going to fold that river, nh

1. im really undecided on 1. I think a huge part of his range after calling the 3bet and calling the flop hits that board.

Re: 4 large bets
 

Damn man i never really do any of this stuff, seems kinda spewy to me.

1) I dont like this, i seem to get lolostationedu with any piece bc it looks like youre bluffing and you actually are this time. Trying to get a loose villain off a 9 is suicide IMHO.

2) lol im gonna be a hater here. hes a "lag who doesnt seem good" when he calls the flop hes got something. surely you dont think hes folding a J or any overpair.

3) I like this one bc its hard to see him play a big hand this way. The flop peel is kinda scarry on that flop but when he checks twice I think youll fold out most things he called flop with.

4) I like this one too. Its gonna be really tough for him to call that river w/o a boat especially if you describe him as weak.

Re: 4 large bets
 

Yeah, I think 1 and 2 are most interesting. 3 is kinda standard as long as you would play a set+ like this (I would sometimes). 4 is meh, it is +EV, but more than anything good for metagame [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 4 large bets
 

Pretty important point I forgot. In hand 1, he started with like $50 and has worked it up to a full stack.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty important point I forgot. In hand 1, he started with like $50 and has worked it up to a full stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably means that he's bad in 3-bet pots. I don't know how to further interpret this information.

Re: 4 large bets
 

weird to see laggy bluffs from someone else at 1/2

Re: 4 large bets
 

Hand 1, I pretty much hate. I get called in these spots all day when I actually have a straight by all kinds of pairs.

Hand 2, I don't think he folds much.

Hand 3 is pretty standard for me.

Hand 4, is fine sometimes.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty important point I forgot. In hand 1, he started with like $50 and has worked it up to a full stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did he get it?

Usually they get stacks like this because they have no fold button and people keep bluffing at them with bottom pair [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty important point I forgot. In hand 1, he started with like $50 and has worked it up to a full stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did he get it?

Usually they get stacks like this because they have no fold button and people keep bluffing at them with bottom pair [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

True. But I have found that fish even tighten up a bit once they are up. This always to me HU, I bluff them and then the donkeys start playing better. So I actually think that him being up will make him fold some marginal hands.

Re: 4 large bets
 

1- If he isn't that great and can't really handread then looks okay I guess. Given PF though I can't really see too many T/5 in your range. If I were villan I would call with 2p+ most times (if I didn't c/r ai on the flop). However, its a scary enough board where I think you can get folds from hands like JJ+.

2: Okay, but I think that he's calling with a J alot.

3: yep, not bad. thoughts on a turn shove?

4: people dont really overbet shove bluff as much so i guess fine. i think you'll get plenty of folds from the A7/89/etc type of hands that villan has.

Re: 4 large bets
 

Hand 2 I don't like cuz "he doesn't seem good". Thus he'll call w/ a J a lot.

Re: 4 large bets
 

Wow.

1: Check back flop.. give up turn.
2: Your flop raise size is really bad. Not only is it too small to have legit FE, it's too small to have legit FE and it makes stacks suck for you on the turn, so it functions pretty horribly as a play to show strength on the flop to take it on the turn.
3: This is such a [censored] spot for a bluff.
4: This is way too big of an overbet. in fact, this is a bad spot for an overbet. It's a good spot for a bet of like 55-60. The turn is an obvious check.

You put them in correct order, incidentally, 1 &gt; 2 &gt; 3 &gt; 4. Someone could probably argue that 2 &gt; 1. All are bad enough to represent major holes in your thought process.

Re: 4 large bets
 

Yeah, I agree with NoahSD on all points. I can't believe everyone in here showing support for these hands when I was sitting here thinking "omg wtf".

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I agree with NoahSD. I can't believe everyone in here showing support for these hands when I was sitting here thinking "omg wtf".

[/ QUOTE ]

if someone w/200 posts, or FGators or something posted these hands...they would get seriously flamed.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I think 1 and 2 are most interesting. 3 is kinda standard as long as you would play a set+ like this (I would sometimes). 4 is meh, it is +EV, but more than anything good for metagame [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Nonoonoooonoononononono.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]

if someone w/200 posts, or FGators or something posted these hands...they would get seriously flamed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 4 large bets
 

I think they all look spewy against the described villains.

If in hnd 1 you mean he's loose pf but plays reasonably post then I think thats ok.

Hand 2 hate the most. I would say it's a value shove v heart draws if anything because TT is about the only better hnd I can see folding. If he can peel the flop w/ stuff like 66/A5 then I think bettiing like 90 achieves the same result and can work alot less to be +ev. Still wouldnt like it though.

Hnd 3 I think QK/A is a decent part of his range and wont fold. Meh maybe you can fold 99/AJ.

Hnd 4 I like the most. He has a 7x type hnd usually and should fold it close to 100% if this is the 1st time youve overbet like this. I also think betting like 50 or whatever here just wouldnt work.

Paul

Re: 4 large bets
 

Hand 1: I don't like that in a reraised pot. You represent an overpair, but he will call you with a random T, any 2 pair and any set, which are likely to be in his range because he is loose. You fold out JJ, maybe QQ, 2 missed overcards and Ax like hands. This is a little bit thin.

Hand 2: This looks better, because that flop hasn't hit an UTG-raiser that often. You may fold out several better 1 pair hands.

Hand 3: Once again, I hate it, because I have problems to find that many better hands, that you fold out, especially against average donks.

Hand 4: To make this a winning play, you have to make him fold a better hand 3 out of 4 times. I don't know whether this is possible. It may be dependent on the poker room you play in, on questions like does he know you, etc. For sure it's a high variance play that I don't like.

Re: 4 large bets
 

Its funny how people flame these hands, but don't put effort to put people on hand ranges or calling frequencies.They folded in all of these.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its funny how people flame these hands, but don't put effort to put people on hand ranges or calling frequencies.They folded in all of these.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess that means you played them correctly then.....

My main problem with hand 1 is the flop bet. That's just awful because every hand that beats you calls and there are a lot of them in his range.

Hand 2 I explained in my previous post.

Hand 3 most randoms don't call a 3-bet and then call a flop bet on that board that lightly, so his range is pretty strong. You also took the line that people in general, and especially people who fit villain's brief description, love to call.

Hand 4 the river bet has almost the exact same FE as one less than half it's size. You really think he calls $100 here with a hand that he doesn't call $200 with?

Re: 4 large bets
 

About hand 1, isn't his range more weighted towards big cards when he calls PF? And its not like they will always call 2 barrels with 3rd pair in this spot. sometimes we improve as well. Flop bet is close in 1 imo. And I do think he will sometimes fold a better hand on flop. Our hand is much different than A9 here imo.

Hand 2 and 3 are not something I do often. But its pretty bad if you are never bluffing in these spots. 4 is part of something I've been trying lately. 100 is probably good against 1/2 donkeys.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
About hand 1, isn't his range more weighted towards big cards when he calls PF?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. I expect his range to contain a ton of small/mid PPs and some suited connectors and gappers and [censored].

[ QUOTE ]
Flop bet is close in 1 imo. And I do think he will sometimes fold a better hand on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless, he has to fold much more than 1 hand that beats you for this to be good.

[ QUOTE ]
Our hand is much different than A9 here imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right.. A9 is a value bet and 46 is a check. This is not a board to turn your weak made hands into bluffs because he has few marginal made hands (most of his made hands are overpairs, sets, two pair, and pair + draw).

[ QUOTE ]
100 is probably good against 1/2 donkeys.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a stakes thing or a donkey vs. reg thing. Your play is really bad. It should be obvious that betting 100 is better than 200 here, and slightly less obvious that the best bet is even lower than that.

Re: 4 large bets
 

You're saying obvious to a lot of stuff that really isn't. For example, if he folds for 200 95% but only folds for 100 75%, 200 is much much better. The ev is $31 vs $61, which is absolutely huge. And in my experience, that is a realistic estimation of FE.

Re: 4 large bets
 

so do i have to pull this kind of stuff to win at 200nl??

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're saying obvious to a lot of stuff that really isn't. For example, if he folds for 200 95% but only folds for 100 75%, 200 is much much better. The ev is $31 vs $61, which is absolutely huge. And in my experience, that is a realistic estimation of FE.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seriously think 20% of the hands he holds going into the river fold to 200 but not 100?

I'd like to see reasonable ranges for which that's true. Keep in mind it's 20% of the hands he folds going into the river.. not 20% of the hands he folds to 200.

Re: 4 large bets
 

A+ metagame post.

aejones been coaching?

Re: 4 large bets
 

jordiepop: probably not. but im assuming Isura doesn't just want to win at 200nl, he wants to be one of the bigget winners.

Im not really in the position to be giving YOU advice to be honest, but I'll say what I think on the whole, and maybe somebody can spot some problems with my thought process.

Hand 1: I dont mind the squeeze preflop. If his ATS is high then it seems like a good squeeze spot. However if hes a 2p2 type player, I dont think hes ever going to call your 3bet OOP with "big cards". I think he 4bets AK for sure especially OOP, AQ probably 4bets maybe calls aswell though. I dont think AJ or less calls your 3bet OOP. If hes half decent he knows thats a recipe for disaster.

So when he calls your 3bet OOP i put him on some strong suited connectors like 56s-&gt;TJs. If he knows you are capable of 3betting light, I assume he isn't going to be calling with small pairs like 22-66 since its clear implied odds aren't there for hitting sets. So i think he is likely to call preflop with 77-QQ. JJ/QQ might fold.

But I think of all the hands he calls preflop (22-66; 56s-&gt;TJs) he isnt folding many of them. I dont think he even folds two pair on this board. So because i dont think hes folding alot of his "3bet CC OOP" range to a flop cbet, i think i generally just check the flop, and give up on the turn as played.


Hand 2: You said hes 35/25 or whatever, so isn't it a good spot to 3bet preflop? I dont mind flat calling with AQ vs UTG raisers who you think you dont have much fold equity against postflop. Then you went on to say hes not that good, which would suggest hes not good enough to fold AJ/overpair here. Against a good tight player, it must look as if you called preflop with a pocket pair and now are fast playing your set...so against a good player i dont mind this play. But since you said hes not good then I imagine hes not folding much. I c/f the flop, but if you are going to raise..i give up on the turn.

I was thinking though, supposing you only made this play with air lets say 1% of the time, and the rest of the time you either have a bigdraw/set..does that mean if he calls with one pair hands hes making a mistake against your range so you win money?


Hand 3: I dont really like it. What hand does he call a 3bet with OOP and then check/call this flop? K9? Dont think so..I think the only thing you are folding out by your river push is a Kx type hand (maybe 99). But what Kx type hands are calling your 3bet OOP and then c/c this flop though? I cant see KQ or KJ and stuff folding. I dont mind the flop cbet to fold out weak suited connectors and small pocket pairs, and possibly second pair type hands like AJ/AT (if he somehow called pf with those hands)...but i give up on the river almost always.

Hand 4: I dont mind triple barreling, but i prefer betting like 80$ or so instead.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're saying obvious to a lot of stuff that really isn't. For example, if he folds for 200 95% but only folds for 100 75%, 200 is much much better. The ev is $31 vs $61, which is absolutely huge. And in my experience, that is a realistic estimation of FE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ye I think he will call up to pot w/ 7x vry often in wich case hes going to call 100 a decent amount of the time.

200 however vry rarely gets called by anything but a weirdly played set. I think river is a check for sure if you not makeing a decent overbet.

Paul

Re: 4 large bets
 

1. Blood everywhere.

2. This probably works a decent portion of the time.

3. First I hated it, then I kinda liked it (because he seems weak), now I'm not sure because you're not repping anything.

4. First I hated it, but now I think this can work often as well, against the right opponent. But then again, it's a ridiculous overbet and you are risking a TON to win a little. So villain only has to snap you off like 15% of the time (complete guestimate) to book a profit, and your standard 1/2 villain WILL do that.

Re: 4 large bets
 

hand 1, loose villain.. he has two pair and you have AA, he is insta calling

Re: 4 large bets
 

hand 2, if your intent is to bluff the turn then raise more on the flop so the stack sizes line up. i dont mind, looks like a jack or TT- or a flush draw, all of which probably fold.

Re: 4 large bets
 

hand 4 seems foolishly sized, i dont think there is a difference in FE between pot and shove. bluff is fine though if you aren't too active at the table (though these hands suggest that you are). your image is crucial here

Re: 4 large bets
 

hand 3 i bet you got looked up, that board hit his range very hard. wtf do u have, AQ?

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
About hand 1, isn't his range more weighted towards big cards when he calls PF? And its not like they will always call 2 barrels with 3rd pair in this spot. sometimes we improve as well. Flop bet is close in 1 imo. And I do think he will sometimes fold a better hand on flop. Our hand is much different than A9 here imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think once he peels the flop his hand range is much more weighted to hands that just paired (scs), JJ-66. all reasonable scs are either two pair or a straight. TT-66 isn't folding because they beat AA. how could he possibly peel flop with something like ak?

...hope he had JJ?

Re: 4 large bets
 

I would look up hand 1 pretty light if i hadnt seen you squeese before, since i wouldnt put the straightcards in your range.

Re: 4 large bets
 

[ QUOTE ]
so do i have to pull this kind of stuff to win at 200nl??

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you have to if you play at Stars. If Isura tells us she is successful with that stuff, we have to believe her. But if you don't play at Stars, be careful. I know one room where this kind of stuff might work, too, but I know at least to rooms where you are dead if you play that way.