15/30 Aces spot.
 

I'll give some of my thoughts later on. I've been trying this line a little more. What are your thoughts on checking flop and calling a bet on the turn?

Fwiw, BB is unknown but seems familiar. Probably a regular.

Poker Stars
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $15/$30
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.67SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2.33BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

In position, HU or 3-handed I'll use this move occasionally and find that it's usually +EV to call the riv as long as no flush comes out. With this specific hand, odds are you either have the best low draw or your aces will hold, especially if no heart comes, your opponent probably won't put you on aces with the flop check which gives him more license to fire with 1 pair or draws.

This move only works if you're also willing to call a bet on a non-heart riv.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

meh. good way to keep things a little loose and "mix" it up. this way it looks like you've picked up a two way draw on the turn and can easily pick off a bluff on the river.

what would make you very tough player is if you can read this guy for a one pair hand and then value bet your better one pair hand on the river when it looks like you missed your draws.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll give some of my thoughts later on. I've been trying this line a little more. What are your thoughts on checking flop and calling a bet on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]Shabamabam - While it's worth mixing up your play, I'd generally bet the flop with this hand.

Villain is not likely to have a hand to fit this flop, and although neither do you, you're probably ahead immediately after the flop. But when you check, giving Villain a free card, he may make two pairs or catch a nice draw on the turn. Your hand simply is not strong enough to allow this.

When you check the flop, you should fully expect Villain to lead after the turn. At that point you don't know if Villain improved on the turn or not, and you're just guessing, chasing with a poor high and also a poor low.

Instead, if you bet the flop there is a good chance Villain will give up the pot to you. And if not, you still have the pair of aces, probably the best hand immediately after the flop.

Buzz

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

free cards are a terrible idea, just about always.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
free cards are a terrible idea, just about always.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand how this is an "always" situation.

In fact, I check the flop a lot of times (in many different situations) to re-evaluate and think that it's the right idea, especially when you don't know where you are and am probably calling down. I think it makes it a lot easier to play and controls pot size.

If the board came TT2r, do you still think flop = 100% bet?

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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free cards are a terrible idea, just about always.


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I don't understand how this is an "always" situation.

In fact, I check the flop a lot of times (in many different situations) to re-evaluate and think that it's the right idea, especially when you don't know where you are and am probably calling down. I think it makes it a lot easier to play and controls pot size.

If the board came TT2r, do you still think flop = 100% bet?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I bet the flop. We aren't talking about playing AA 5 handed. Checking for information with position? that makes no sense. Read Buzz's post again, he gives some really good reasons why checking here is specifically sucky, and because I can't think of a good reason to ever do it, I'd never do it. Also realize, you gain 0 information by checking, but by betting you can gain a lot.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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free cards are a terrible idea, just about always.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I don't understand how this is an "always" situation.

In fact, I check the flop a lot of times (in many different situations) to re-evaluate and think that it's the right idea, especially when you don't know where you are and am probably calling down. I think it makes it a lot easier to play and controls pot size.

If the board came TT2r, do you still think flop = 100% bet?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I bet the flop. We aren't talking about playing AA 5 handed. Checking for information with position? that makes no sense. Read Buzz's post again, he gives some really good reasons why checking here is specifically sucky, and because I can't think of a good reason to ever do it, I'd never do it. Also realize, you gain 0 information by checking, but by betting you can gain a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok fair enough. But on like a TT4 board, what info do you need? You're either way ahead or way behind. Betting the flop will get raised or called by a better hand while checking induces bluffing and gains information via delayed cont bet method.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

Greed is a cardinal sin. And the price of sin is death.

But you already know it thats why you came here and posted this, right?

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok fair enough. But on like a TT4 board, what info do you need? You're either way ahead or way behind. Betting the flop will get raised or called by a better hand while checking induces bluffing and gains information via delayed cont bet method.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting disallows the free card, which I find to be very important, as well as putting in bets when ahead very often. It also gains you some info, though that is not why I'd bet. If you bet and get called or raised, its time to play poker. If you check, you have no clue where you stand on the turn regardless of the action that takes place. Giving a 2-6 outer a free card = teh suck. I really haven't heard any valid arguement for not betting the flop. If you are doing it to mix up your game, realize that is totally pointless, since your opening standards here are very wide, and you will bet just about any flop, with monsters, and with nothing. Also, don't play against a player that can exploit you here (basically a much better player).

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

my line here is to bet the flop, bet the turn, and check the river if i dont have a two way hand, or if a third heart falls. basically re-eval.

fwiw the best card for your hand in this spot will usually be a seven. just something to consider, as it gives you the best possible two pair.

i dont like checking the flop because it gives your opponent a free card, we have less information about his hand, and you'll usually be putting in two big bets here always, i.e., calling the turn/river, and imo it's better to put in 1.5 bb's on flop/turn and getting the following: fold equity, information, value, control of the hand.

yeah, so, bet the flop, call if raised, bet the turn, call if raised, and re-eval the river.

also, buzz, i think this board is more likely to have helped villains hand here as he is in the BB. i.e., if he was cold calling from the button etc, it's less likely, but the BB gets defended by a very wide range of hands.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

Checking on a TT4 flop makes a lot more sense than checking on this flop.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

Hi Sham,

I see what you're thinking here, and it's not bad in some spots IMO, but here, your hi hand is a little too strong, and your draws a little too poor for this to be the right spot. AJ3T or AJ34 would be a nice spot to check behind here, since you're always calling if raised, though you won't love it.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

fancy play syndrome

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

I generally take the same line as TxRedMan here, but I have certain HU opponents that are so predictable that I use the same approach that you did.

If you know the player, and know why you are playing this hand the way you are, then there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Even more, if you think beyond this one pot, you are giving the players a little more to consider on your action on future hands.

Re: 15/30 Aces spot.
 

Not that it should matter too much. The results were pretty interesting to me. Fwiw, I was raising the river if he led out and calling a 3-bet obv.

*** RIVER *** [Kd Jh 2s 7h] [4s]
Villain: checks
Me: bets $30
Villain: calls $30

Seat 4: Villain (big blind) mucked [9h Qs Td Jc]