50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

This was my first hand at the table. 3 bet or flat call? The only thing I don't like about 3 betting here is it commits me to calling a shove and I'm not sure how aggressive button is.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $21.35
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $20.00
BTN: $18.45

UTG posts $0.50
Preflop: Hero is dealt Thttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Thttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (4 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">BTN raises to $2.00</font>, SB calls $1.75, Hero ?[/i]

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

Without reads I would just call and play for set value.
But maybe I'm just a little scared.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

i would just call and hope for a good flop (hit set/under cards) and then try to get your money in on the flop.
Raising only gets you in though spots.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

I like a three bet for several reasons:

1) Fold equity - if villain is raising light, he very well might fold. Even if SB stays in the hand, you have position.

2) Low implied odds - if you do hit a set and manage to stack your opponent, it isn't that big of a payoff with their relatively small stacks.

3) Better isolation. Better to play TT against one opponent than 2.

4) Adds more money to pot. TT is very likely to be the strongest hand, henceforth, you want to make more with it.


Don't feel that you are committed if the button shoves. You have a stack of fifty, and you are investing less than $10 on a three bet. Villain isn't likely to shove unless he has you beat, in which case you should fold anyway.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

I 3 bet this your way ahead of this guys range IMO.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

i would def three bet

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

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Don't feel that you are committed if the button shoves. You have a stack of fifty, and you are investing less than $10 on a three bet. Villain isn't likely to shove unless he has you beat, in which case you should fold anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I 3 bet to $8, button shoves, SB folds, then there will be $28 in the pot and it costs me $10 to call. I don't think you can fold getting 3-1 there.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would just call and hope for a good flop (hit set/under cards) and then try to get your money in on the flop.
Raising only gets you in though spots.

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This and the guy below you - horrible advice. Did you even read cmn's post? If you want to post weak-tight advice of what you would do because you're a scared player, this isn't the right forum. Poker involves tough spots, making difficult decisions and making the right reads. If you just wanna play every hand scared to avoid those spot you are going to lose alot of money. Cmn's post is perfect, I have nothing to add to it.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

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I 3 bet this your way ahead of this guys range IMO.

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Only problem is he's an unknown so I don't know what his range is. When it comes to unknowns I find that short stack players generally have a tighter raising range than full stack players. But maybe TT is strong enough to not worry about that.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like a three bet for several reasons:

1) Fold equity - if villain is raising light, he very well might fold. Even if SB stays in the hand, you have position.

2) Low implied odds - if you do hit a set and manage to stack your opponent, it isn't that big of a payoff with their relatively small stacks.

3) Better isolation. Better to play TT against one opponent than 2.

4) Adds more money to pot. TT is very likely to be the strongest hand, henceforth, you want to make more with it.


Don't feel that you are committed if the button shoves. You have a stack of fifty, and you are investing less than $10 on a three bet. Villain isn't likely to shove unless he has you beat, in which case you should fold anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is good except the last part:


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.699% 45.89% 00.80% 372492168 6530862.00 { TT }
Hand 1: 53.301% 52.50% 00.80% 426078204 6530862.00 { 99+, AJs+, AJo+ }


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.413% 36.21% 00.20% 126502032 693396.00 { TT }
Hand 1: 63.587% 63.39% 00.20% 221421192 693396.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }


We gotta call getting 3:1 once he pushes

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would just call and hope for a good flop (hit set/under cards) and then try to get your money in on the flop.
Raising only gets you in though spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

This and the guy below you - horrible advice. Did you even read cmn's post? If you want to post weak-tight advice of what you would do because you're a scared player, this isn't the right forum. Poker involves tough spots, making difficult decisions and making the right reads. If you just wanna play every hand scared to avoid those spot you are going to lose alot of money. Cmn's post is perfect, I have nothing to add to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i didnt read his post actually, pretty hard to read it when it hasnt been post at the time i posted. Even so when i post something,i dont want to look at the allrdy posted advice, i want to be confronted with my mistakes. Im here to learn from my mistakes. I think thats why we post hands, thats the whole point of this forum.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
This was my first hand at the table.
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 4 Players -
SB: $21.35
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $20.00
BTN: $18.45


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I see a problem. First Hand? Why did you join a table of shorties and only 3 players? Go for 40% see flop 5player tables with big pots and no more than one ... maybe two shorties.

TT is fine pf against shorties to 3bet and call. First hand, their range for pushing can be very wide, too.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

Oh, I definitely 3-bet this. You don't include any reads, but the assumption is that button can be raising wide here. TT is a strong hand. Raise that [censored] up.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
...When it comes to unknowns I find that short stack players generally have a tighter raising range than full stack players.

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I have a completely different read of shortstack players then you. I play at the same levels you do and most shortstack players are idiots. Most are not buying in short and playing a 'short stack strategy.' Most are just bad players who want to minimize what they can lose in one hand.

I think you're better off assuming shorties are bad until they prove otherwise.

I don't know if its the best move but I often shove 10s or better here against shorties. They'll call behind more often then not.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This was my first hand at the table.
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 4 Players -
SB: $21.35
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $20.00
BTN: $18.45


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I see a problem. First Hand? Why did you join a table of shorties and only 3 players? Go for 40% see flop 5player tables with big pots and no more than one ... maybe two shorties.

TT is fine pf against shorties to 3bet and call. First hand, their range for pushing can be very wide, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

not to hijack but i think this was a good table to sit down at. small stacks often = scared/poor players.

someone made a great post the other week about selecting a table. the suggestion was to sit at an empty table and ait for people to join b/c typically grinders and multitabling good players are not looking for this so you attract short and medium stack bad players...i cannot speak enough about what a good idea this has been.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

Yeah, I give shortstacks little respect at all. Many of them are there to gamble, so their raising ranges can be all over the map.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This was my first hand at the table.
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 4 Players -
SB: $21.35
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $20.00
BTN: $18.45


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I see a problem. First Hand? Why did you join a table of shorties and only 3 players? Go for 40% see flop 5player tables with big pots and no more than one ... maybe two shorties.

TT is fine pf against shorties to 3bet and call. First hand, their range for pushing can be very wide, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to admit I usually don't sit at tables with all shorties. I can usually find a maniac sitting with 150bb stacks... why sit with a bunch of people playing short?

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...When it comes to unknowns I find that short stack players generally have a tighter raising range than full stack players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a completely different read of shortstack players then you. I play at the same levels you do and most shortstack players are idiots. Most are not buying in short and playing a 'short stack strategy.' Most are just bad players who want to minimize what they can lose in one hand.

I think you're better off assuming shorties are bad until they prove otherwise.

I don't know if its the best move but I often shove 10s or better here against shorties. They'll call behind more often then not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree they are bad players. That is why I sit at their tables. What I meant was they raise fewer hands than an average 100bb player. They usually don't understand postion so they aren't raising a huge range OTB.

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

ez 3Bet;

If he shoves, ez call ;-)

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

I'm still undecided on this. If I had JJ or better I would 3 bet. With TT I was on the fence. For those that would 3 bet TT what would you do with 77-99 here?

Here's how the hand played out for those interested:
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $21.35
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $20.00
BTN: $18.45

UTG posts $0.50
Preflop: Hero is dealt Thttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Thttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (4 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">BTN raises to $2.00</font>, SB calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.50, UTG folds

Flop: ($6.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (3 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets all-in for $19.35</font>, Hero folds, BTN calls all-in for $16.45
Uncalled bet of $0.00 returned to SB

Turn: ($39.40) 4http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (2 Players - 2 All-In)

River: ($39.40) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $39.40

BTN had Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a full house, Queens full of Fours) and LOST (-$18.45)
SB had Jhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (two pair, Queens and Jacks) and LOST (-$18.45)

Re: 50NL: TT In BB Vs Shorty
 

i would only call pre flop and look at the flop with 10 10... i think you played it fine