No limping in 6 max?
 

Just wanted to get a majority consensus on limping UTG in 6max with small pairs (55-). I assume most would say you should never limp first in in 6max.

I am curious as to whether, when people are raising with these pairs UTG in 6max they are calling a pot size 3bet or instafolding everytime? Is it entirely/partially opponent specific for you? Would anyone consider 4betting? If you are folding to the 3bet do you feel you lose value by not getting opportunity for a set? Is the best play an 80/20 raise/fold type scenario?

Please add in any other variables/ideas I may have missed. Cheers.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

don't open limp. raise and fold to sizable 3bets unless you're against some lagtard or just feel like making a nit cry.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

I am a super nit and I never open limp

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

tbh, I never limp period. It's raise or fold for me usually.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

There are times to limp but it's usually best not to.

If it's folded to me with 33 OTB, for instance, and one or both of the blinds are very very short I'll sometimes limp. I'll also limp behind a bunch of other limpers sometimes with small pairs, suited connecters and suited aces and kings.

I can't think of many other occasions, though.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

Honestly, though, with all the aggression in todays 6max games, I wonder if there isn't a strategy for limp/re-raising from time to time with big hands and in favorable squeezing spots with small pairs/suited connectors.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

Maybe it's really nitty of me but I fold 55- UTG in 6max. Unless it's a really loose table

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are times to limp but it's usually best not to.

If it's folded to me with 33 OTB, for instance, and one or both of the blinds are very very short I'll sometimes limp. I'll also limp behind a bunch of other limpers sometimes with small pairs, suited connecters and suited aces and kings.

I can't think of many other occasions, though.

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why not just raise and call their shove getting like 4:1 and gamble

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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I am a super nit and I never open limp

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ur avatar tilts me plz stop posting

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

Folded to you in MP with 22. CO and button are both 60/5's.

I limp here and you should too.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am a super nit and I never open limp

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ur avatar tilts me plz stop posting

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Dude your avatar is giving me epilepsy

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

i do limp sometimes. 22-55 UTG OOP against 3 CS's is not a profitable raise, you will get called. but this is very rare.

people are dumb if they think raise or fold all the time.

if 2 or 3 people limp in and you have some sort of specultive hand and your opponents are not the type to fold at any point, i will often limp on the button. you are losing tonnes of value by not limping. things like 75o, you can't really profitably raise usually, but limping is often better than folding.

i think people are just worried their stats will change from 22/20 to 22/17 or someting

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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Maybe it's really nitty of me but I fold 55- UTG in 6max. Unless it's a really loose table

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I raise any pp in any position in an unopened pot.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
There are times to limp but it's usually best not to.

If it's folded to me with 33 OTB, for instance, and one or both of the blinds are very very short I'll sometimes limp. I'll also limp behind a bunch of other limpers sometimes with small pairs, suited connecters and suited aces and kings.

I can't think of many other occasions, though.

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why not just raise and call their shove getting like 4:1 and gamble

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The problem isn't calling a shove preflop, necessarily, it's that when you're called the stack sizes are very awkward. In particular the effectiveness of c-betting is diminished greatly because it's so easy for shorty to shove over the top. Sometimes when that happens I lay down the best hand, and sometimes I call with two outs. limping avoids these spots, and sometimes lets you turn the tables and put villain in similar spots.

That's how I look at it anyway. You probably know better, though, seeing as you once cussed out my screen name on these forums [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Edit: BTW, I overemphasised the shortness of stacks required. I meant stacks around 20bb to 40bb.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

never say never

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

Hi, just wondering if anyone has any feedback on this.

If I am UTG with AA, I have tried raising by any amount and it can lead to one of 3 situations, only one of which is desirable.

Everybody folds (Not Good)

UTG + 1 calls and starts a domino cascade of calls (Not good unless Ace hits on flop)

Only once person calls or re-raises (Ideal).

However on the merits of this topic on 6-Max limping I find that if I limp then almost always someone will raise, adding money in to the pot and then giving me another bet as it were.

If everyone folds I will then call the bet if they are a passive player or raise by more than double to fein a bluff if they are very agressive.

If more than one person calls the other persons raise I will do a genuine big raise to narrow the number of hands or win the pot.

I don't have any statistics to back this up but I'm sure my equity has turned out much more in the long run than just raising.

I'm sure that a lot of the time I just clear 2 x $4 bets when the raise (100NL), which is fine. Often tho someone re-raises leading to an All-in.

Obviously I don't always do this, especially if someone has called and seen my pcoket cards. However if you only do this with AA and never bluff and people haven't seen your cards and it's happened a few times, eventually some observant agressive player with call your raise thinking it's the same old bullsh*t.

Any comments?

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

For me it depends on the table aggression. If there are 26/23 players left to act behind me, I'll sometimes (~25%)limp with 44 intending to call their raise. Also, the Ed Miller example of limping hands like J9s on the button against weak opponents in the blinds.

I think it also depends on table image and your ability to take control of the hand. I haven't limp re-raised in eons, but I can't say that it is always a bad play. Weak opponents only do this with two hands, if you can broaden your raise and you know that villain will not calla LRR lightly, then there is some merit in it.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, just wondering if anyone has any feedback on this.

If I am UTG with AA, I have tried raising by any amount and it can lead to one of 3 situations, only one of which is desirable.

Everybody folds (Not Good)

UTG + 1 calls and starts a domino cascade of calls (Not good unless Ace hits on flop)

Only once person calls or re-raises (Ideal).

However on the merits of this topic on 6-Max limping I find that if I limp then almost always someone will raise, adding money in to the pot and then giving me another bet as it were.

If everyone folds I will then call the bet if they are a passive player or raise by more than double to fein a bluff if they are very agressive.

If more than one person calls the other persons raise I will do a genuine big raise to narrow the number of hands or win the pot.

I don't have any statistics to back this up but I'm sure my equity has turned out much more in the long run than just raising.

I'm sure that a lot of the time I just clear 2 x $4 bets when the raise (100NL), which is fine. Often tho someone re-raises leading to an All-in.

Obviously I don't always do this, especially if someone has called and seen my pcoket cards. However if you only do this with AA and never bluff and people haven't seen your cards and it's happened a few times, eventually some observant agressive player with call your raise thinking it's the same old bullsh*t.

Any comments?

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pls dont limp rr shorthanded games at ssnl

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I am a super nit and I never open limp

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ur avatar tilts me plz stop posting

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Dude your avatar is giving me epilepsy

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I cant even figure out whats going on in urs

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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pls dont limp rr shorthanded games at ssnl

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Could you explain this in some detail for me. I appreciate not limping hands that arn't strong enough to raise with, but can you never feign weakness in 6 max with limping against highly agressive players?

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

theres so much to explain, but basically i doubt u have anywhere close to an optimal limp reriasing range and frequency. just raise every hand u wanna play or fold

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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I appreciate not limping hands that arn't strong enough to raise with, but can you never feign weakness in 6 max with limping against highly agressive players?

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Limp-reraising isnt really trapping because your limp-rr range is so much smaller than your standard opening range. Consider three scenarios:

You raise with AA, laggy player calls with weaker hand and picks a pair or a draw on the flop and you win more monies.

You raise with AA, laggy player re-raises. You can 4-bet or slowplay if you have the position and win more monies.

You limp with AA, laggy player raises, you re-raise and he makes an easy fold.

I hope this made some sense and isnt complete bs.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

only limp RR when you have AA and they have KK

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

i like to limp the button

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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theres so much to explain, but basically i doubt u have anywhere close to an optimal limp reriasing range and frequency. just raise every hand u wanna play or fold

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you certainly COULD implement a strategy that involves limp rr'ing in SH games. however, as tufat suggested, there is much more to it than just limp rring AA and KK with some flim flam mixed in.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

I seldom open limp but it happens from time to time, limp behind a limper or some limpers I do pretty often

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

If you ain't limping with AA you shouldn't be limping with 22, there's a thing called transparency.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

GRUNCH

[ QUOTE ]
Just wanted to get a majority consensus on limping UTG in 6max with small pairs (55-). I assume most would say you should never limp first in in 6max.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst i would almost always raise PPs from all positions, there are certainly some rare circumstances where open-limping with them might be acceptable.

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I am curious as to whether, when people are raising with these pairs UTG in 6max they are calling a pot size 3bet or instafolding everytime? Is it entirely/partially opponent specific for you?

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it's mostly dependent on stack sizes (5-10 rule) and partially dependent on villain.

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Would anyone consider 4betting?

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certainly, this is very opponent specific.

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If you are folding to the 3bet do you feel you lose value by not getting opportunity for a set? Is the best play an 80/20 raise/fold type scenario?

[/ QUOTE ]

1.no
2. lol no.

Please add in any other variables/ideas I may have missed. Cheers.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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Folded to you in MP with 22. CO and button are both 60/5's.

I limp here and you should too.

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Why? Even if I know they are both guaranteed to call, I still like raising to build the pot in case I hit. Obviously, it is much easier to stack people in a raised pot, and if I know they are going to call down with middle pair / TPNK, I get that much more value by inflating the pot PF. If I miss, I have no problem check/folding, knowing they are going to call c-bets. Is this wrong? Does limping really show greater EV than raising against this specific opponent type?

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
For me it depends on the table aggression. If there are 26/23 players left to act behind me, I'll sometimes (~25%)limp with 44 intending to call their raise. Also, the Ed Miller example of limping hands like J9s on the button against weak opponents in the blinds.

I think it also depends on table image and your ability to take control of the hand. I haven't limp re-raised in eons, but I can't say that it is always a bad play. Weak opponents only do this with two hands, if you can broaden your raise and you know that villain will not calla LRR lightly, then there is some merit in it.

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You limpcall 44 oop shorthanded [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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Everybody folds (which is fine)



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FYP

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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I am a super nit and I never open limp

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ur avatar tilts me plz stop posting

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my avatar is the [censored]

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For me it depends on the table aggression. If there are 26/23 players left to act behind me, I'll sometimes (~25%)limp with 44 intending to call their raise. Also, the Ed Miller example of limping hands like J9s on the button against weak opponents in the blinds.

I think it also depends on table image and your ability to take control of the hand. I haven't limp re-raised in eons, but I can't say that it is always a bad play. Weak opponents only do this with two hands, if you can broaden your raise and you know that villain will not calla LRR lightly, then there is some merit in it.

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You limpcall 44 oop shorthanded [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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I said 25% of the time or less. If you are going to change things up, that is the type of hand (along with SCs) to do it. However, I need opponents who are guaranteed to raise a limp behind me before I will consider it. It's been a decent play for this nit against aggro TAGs and 2+2ers [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone do with hands like 99-QQ when you raise in CO/button and get LRR'd large by someone UTG and you haven't noticed them do it before? Fold? Push? Call and fold most flops to the cbet?

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone do with hands like 99-QQ when you raise in CO/button and get LRR'd large by someone UTG and you haven't noticed them do it before? Fold? Push? Call and fold most flops to the cbet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone do with hands like 99-QQ when you raise in CO/button and get LRR'd large by someone UTG and you haven't noticed them do it before? Fold? Push? Call and fold most flops to the cbet?

[/ QUOTE ]
depens on what read I have of what should come on the flop.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone do with hands like 99-QQ when you raise in CO/button and get LRR'd large by someone UTG and you haven't noticed them do it before? Fold? Push? Call and fold most flops to the cbet?

[/ QUOTE ]

If stacks are deep enough, I call for set value, otherwise I fold most times.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

Limping or open limping can be profitable in 6 max, whether you folks belive it or not. But it's highly dependent on the table and especially on the players to your left. So sometimes, maybe on 10% of the tables, it can be done during some orbits.

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

Theres a big difference between open limping and limping behind other limpers....I never open limp

Re: No limping in 6 max?
 

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Maybe it's really nitty of me but I fold 55- UTG in 6max. Unless it's a really loose table

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That isn't nitty, its just really bad.