KK against tag
 

Villain is a tag, LDO.

My pleasure is gone because of the way I played this hand. I was totally lost and I don't know if my thinking is good or not.

Anyways, should I 3 bet the flop looking to get all in here? Does that even make sense? Villain will fold out AQ, KQ, or air that we beat, but will play back with sets, made flushes, combo draws etc. Since we have the Kc, do we make more money by letting him keep betting? Someone please correct my thinking here.

As played on the river, am I EVER good? I'm getting 3:1 but would villain 3 barrel onto a flop like this without something stronger than KK?


Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $62.10
BB: $64.45
UTG: $39.30
MP: $43.45
CO: $30.95
Hero (BTN): $50.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, SB calls $1.50, BB folds

Flop: ($4) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $9.00</font>, Hero calls $6.00

Turn: ($22) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $16.00</font>, Hero calls $16.00

River: ($54) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $24.00</font>, Hero ??

Re: KK against tag
 

i'm folding this turn...

you're standard taggy 50nler is almost never double barrelling this board with air. Once you call the turn you know you're facing another bet of 25, so calling the turn and folding the river is not really an option....

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm folding this turn...

you're standard taggy 50nler is almost never double barrelling this board with air. Once you call the turn you know you're facing another bet of 25, so calling the turn and folding the river is not really an option....

[/ QUOTE ]

yea but AcQx is def in his range , im never folding this turn , ill probably either try to get it all in on the flop tho ...

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm folding this turn...

you're standard taggy 50nler is almost never double barrelling this board with air. Once you call the turn you know you're facing another bet of 25, so calling the turn and folding the river is not really an option....

[/ QUOTE ]

yea but AcQx is def in his range , im never folding this turn , ill probably either try to get it all in on the flop tho ...

[/ QUOTE ]AQo should not be in his range which is why stats are better than calling somebody a TAG.

Re: KK against tag
 

aaaaawwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr iiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn on the flop

Re: KK against tag
 

i just wanted to say that....i didn't even look at the hand sorry

Re: KK against tag
 

He's only calling profitably with 2 pair, a set or a flopped flush which are all far less likely than a draw or a Q IMO and even than you still have outs. You're flipping against AcQ with the pot as overlay. I push the flop.

Re: KK against tag
 

Push the flop. You're ahead of a lot, and have a lot of outs against everything except the nuts.

Re: KK against tag
 

PUSH THE FLOP UUUUUUUUUUUUUUU NIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: KK against tag
 

Villain is 19/17/2.4, with flop AF of 5, turn AF of 1.25, river AF of 1.5 over 220 hands.

I don't get why we should be pushing against a non donk. What hands will a non donk call; more specifically, what hands that we beat will call?

Re: KK against tag
 

I shall fold the turn, you aren't getting the right odds to proceed and next to this you might be drawing dead already to the nut flush draw.

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
aaaaawwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr iiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: KK against tag
 

Get it in on the flop. As played I fold the river.

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 19/17/2.4, with flop AF of 5, turn AF of 1.25, river AF of 1.5 over 220 hands.

I don't get why we should be pushing against a non donk. What hands will a non donk call; more specifically, what hands that we beat will call?

[/ QUOTE ]

From the hands he calls a push with we only beat AcQ. But what hands do we beat on the river? Exactly the same. So as weird as it may sound we don't have position in this hand.
Because he is not a donk it is very possible that he didn't call oop with suited connectors, Acxc. We are afraid only of sets and rarely a flush, may it be the nut one. But would AcJc check raise the flop instead of leading? Would a set do that? His check raise puzzles me a lot.
It's very hard to believe that he bluffs here, I fold the turn. As played call the river. The odds are good, anyway half of our stack is already in the pot and if we thought we had him on the turn, nothing changed on the river.
I am really not sure how this hand is supposed to be played. and that's the main reason I fold the turn. I don't want to play for stacks when I have no clue.

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
Get it in on the flop. As played I fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
assign the tag a calling range please...

Re: KK against tag
 

If I don't raise flop, I'm sure as hell raising the turn.

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
aaaaawwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr iiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I don't raise flop, I'm sure as hell raising the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
why why why why....what other than acqx calls us that we're ahead of?

Re: KK against tag
 

Pushing is fun. Do it.

Re: KK against tag
 

god, the more i think about it the more i hate pushing

Re: KK against tag
 

do you know anythign about how this guy actually plays? since hes tag he could easily be calling your btn open with the intention of raising your cbet figuring you, on the whole, dont have a lot. if hes the type to contine bluffing when called, i think calling and shoving the turn is a decent option. unknown apart from tag stats and i just shove the flop - hes raising a pretty wide range on the flop.

since this is btn v blind i can see him gettign ai a little lighter. aq/jq with a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is def calling a flop shove possibly QT too.

Re: KK against tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
aaaaawwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr iiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS play is the most +EV????? Please explain.

Charts and diagrams helpful. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: KK against tag
 

this hand is really difficult for me. do you cbet enough that he could feel comfortable risking the check-behind on the flop without a super strong hand?