Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

only no limit games they run are 1/2 NL $300 max and 2/5 $1k max.

They have all these damn limit games running all the time so the wait is 1-2 hours every time.

Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.

Anyway to offer a different game structure? wait is 1-2 hours every time

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway to offer a different game structure? [

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure: ban no-limit and switch completely to limit. Limit games move faster than no-limit games.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]


Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.



[/ QUOTE ]

I can't tell if this is serious but poker is not new to indiana. Maybe new to you who learned poker on ESPN but the Limit games in Indiana are the best in the midwest and up there with Foxwoods. Before ESPN poker you could rarely find NL games outside of Vegas but you could always get a 30/60 HOSE game in NWI or Southern Ind. Its a real simple solution, call ahead seating.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

NWI has amazing quality of play for the limits....

The 2-5 NLH game in NWI is better than 5-10 at the Wynn in quality of play...

True Story...sucks for me since I used to take like 800 bucks out of that game in 2003-4-5...

As for the limit games I know Resorts East Chicago has a quality 20/40 runnning round the clock and some huge NLH at time plus the 5-10 NLH always is running and actually pretty decent depending on the lineup.

I havent played live here for like 6 months though.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

30-60 hose never runs now. I dont know if it ever did but I have been going for 3 years(not that long I know) but i have never seen it.

I have played over there a million times, and work there now and the waits are never 1-2 hours. I dont know if you went at a bad time or what, but the waits are usually never that bad.

What nl did you want to play?

They also dont have that many limit games running. It's mostly all 1-2 nl. There is usually one 4-8 game, 2 to 3 2-4-4-8 games, one 10-20 on weekends, then 10 1-2 nl games, and one 2-5 that usually gets a must move later on in the day on weekends.

On saturdays usually 3 2-5 games are running.

Also on Wen, and Fri they have 10-25 plo running

Weekends usually has 1-2 30-60 stud games.

On monday 2/5 plo uncapped was running.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

I've been playing at Caesars Indiana almost 4 yrs and the 1/2 no limit game is 1 of the most popular games now, but there are usually only 2 to 4 tables running on weekdays 2-9 pm.

If they had a $200, 500, and 1k buy-in game it would help players improve as the stakes increase.

As it stands now there are only 2 no limit games, 300 max 1/2 and 1k max 2/5 , which funnels all the beginners into the 300 max game.

My point is that there could be more no limit games there, since it is the only place to play for a lot of people.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

I don't know about adding more no-limit games, but I do know that I've never waited an hour for a 1/2 no-limit game. Even at 8:00 on a Friday night during the summer, the wait was about a half hour.

They seem to have plenty of table of 1/2 no limit going on the weekends.

I'm not usually there during the week, so I don't know what it's like.

Just be happy that you have casino gambling in your state!!!

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
only no limit games they run are 1/2 NL $300 max and 2/5 $1k max.

They have all these damn limit games running all the time so the wait is 1-2 hours every time.

Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.

Anyway to offer a different game structure? wait is 1-2 hours every time



[/ QUOTE ]

This post is wrong on so many levels I am not even going to try. They will spread any game that will fill a table. If you want something different, start a list.

The $2-5 NL was previously uncapped and died. They recently capped the buyin at $1,000 and the game is beginning to make a come back.

If you think the poker at Caesar's IN sucks, you need to get out more and see what the rest of the country has available.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
only no limit games they run are 1/2 NL $300 max and 2/5 $1k max.

They have all these damn limit games running all the time so the wait is 1-2 hours every time.

Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.

Anyway to offer a different game structure? wait is 1-2 hours every time



[/ QUOTE ]

This post is wrong on so many levels I am not even going to try. They will spread any game that will fill a table. If you want something different, start a list.

The $2-5 NL was previously uncapped and died. They recently capped the buyin at $1,000 and the game is beginning to make a come back.

If you think the poker at Caesar's IN sucks, you need to get out more and see what the rest of the country has available.

[/ QUOTE ]

we had a whole 10/20 table that wanted to switch to 20/40 once and the floor wouldnt let us. We all quit the game and put our names on a interest list and the floor (the hot one) waited an hour to call it off and by that time most everyone just left pissed off. (there was tables avaliable)

On the way out the floor had the audacity to tell me that getting everyone to quit the 10/20 game was the worst decision we could of made. I tried to explain to here that costing them rake was our only recourse and the room had their priorities wrong if they thought it hurt us more than them.


2 nights later a different floor let us change our 5/10NL game to 10/20NL game when the table requested it.


Ive played in LA LV AC Ceasers IN and some San Diego casino I dont remember, and IN has the worst run room Ive ever ran across (not saying there isnt worse_)

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

Hoping to continue this conversation a little bit. What kind of experiences have people had with some of the smaller poker rooms in Southern Indiana? Argosy and Belterra have poker rooms; how are their games?

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

I haven't played at Belterra since Argosy opened. Argosy has a nice room and the games are good. The guys running it are from the Goldstrike in Tunica, Roger and Terry.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

I agree they are [censored] at Caesars, but that is weird they would not let you switch games. I have done this several times.

We switched our 1/2 omaha game to HOE during the last circuit event.

There is usually a few full games during the week. At night it's more crowded than you would expect.

1/2 nl killed off the 10/20 I hear. But it still goes on the weekends always.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
only no limit games they run are 1/2 NL $300 max and 2/5 $1k max.

They have all these damn limit games running all the time so the wait is 1-2 hours every time.

Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.

Anyway to offer a different game structure? wait is 1-2 hours every time



[/ QUOTE ]

This post is wrong on so many levels I am not even going to try. They will spread any game that will fill a table. If you want something different, start a list.

The $2-5 NL was previously uncapped and died. They recently capped the buyin at $1,000 and the game is beginning to make a come back.

If you think the poker at Caesar's IN sucks, you need to get out more and see what the rest of the country has available.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, Caesar's IN sucks pretty bad, but only recently.

My main problems

1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to...

2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop & turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear.

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.

4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits.

5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US.

In general, though, the brushes are more competent than you'll generally find in So. Indy (esp. Argosy), the dealers are much more competent than you'll find (Argosy, Belterra), and the game selection is unbeatable. I've seen some casinos in the US, and I can't blame Caesars for the changes they've made (they really suck the money out of everyone, fish and good player alike), but they're very suboptimal, particularly of late.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
only no limit games they run are 1/2 NL $300 max and 2/5 $1k max.

They have all these damn limit games running all the time so the wait is 1-2 hours every time.

Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.

Anyway to offer a different game structure? wait is 1-2 hours every time

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, you should stop your whining, and realize just how lucky you really are (you sound like some spoiled Cali and Las Vegas people I know of, who have 'all you can eat buffet' when it comes to being able to play poker a few steps from their doorstep, who whine about the littlest of things, and don't realize the good fortune they have living where they do and having as much access to live action poker as they do. They fail to realize (as it appears you do) that the rest of us are NOT that lucky).

I lived in Cincy for almost 15 years, and moved to Denver about a year and a half ago, just so I could get a job in the Telecom Sector (there are no such jobs back in Cincy or in that area that I know of). I used to drive up to Ceasars Indiana (a 2 hr drive each way), all the time.

BTW, poker isn't new to Ceasars Indiana either. When I first started playing poker 4 years ago, they were there and had been for some time. Plus, they were the ONLY casino in the Region to have a Poker room, period until about 2 yrs ago, when the Belterra opened up their room.

Before I left, they had upgraded the room from a tiny section at the bottom of the boat with a mere 10 tables, to half the floor, with dozens of tables.

I'd KILL to to be ABLE to wait 2 hrs for a NL game, but colorado, the max bet allowed here is 5 bucks, so I'm stuck in the land of no fold 'em hold 'em here, no NLHE here AT all for sure!

You don't realize just how lucky you really are. Ceasars indiana is one of the Best poker rooms in the Midwest if not the country.

You have access to tourneys all the time, including every saturday, a $225 buyin into a WSOP ME event that pays out 3 seats to the ME. Man, I'd kill to be able to have the access you have, to those qualifier satallites.

Nearest place I can go play NL is the Horseshoe in CB Iowa, an 8hrs drive from Denver, and you can forget about them (the Horseshoe) having weekly qualifier satallites into the WSOP ME on a regular basis, let alone on the weekends.

I don't mean to be mean to you here, but I just had to vent.

If I could find a job in Telecom there, that payed well enough, I'd be back there in a heartbeat to be sure, because being in Colorado, sucks big time when it comes to poker!

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

My main problems

1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to...
It is good business to charge the maximum the market will bear.

2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop & turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear. this paragraph doesn't make any sense. I think skilled players understand how to play but that game isn't designed for skilled players, it is for loose ass donkeys that like to play every hand.

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.
I think this is player dependant.

4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits.
I haven't waited more than an hour in a really long time other than when the WSOP Circuit events are in town, of course.

5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US.
Ameristar in St Charles MO used to be 50 cents an hour. I don't know the current comp rate.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.



[/ QUOTE ]

Is this correct, do they charge a seat fee and take a rake? Or is it a BBJ $1. Also, if so does it apply to the bigger NL games?

Also, what is the max buy in and can you reload at any time?

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

You know Cincy, I just read these to remind myself how much better things are in Connecticut. 5$ per 30 min on 1/2 no rake nor bbjp.

And Different games on the weekend then the week? My head would fall off.

Still, I doubt Ceaser's IN is worse than Greektown.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

DRF, yeah, it all depends on where you live, and what access you have to live poker on how your view of that room (and it's rules) is colored.

Gawd I so suck now at 2/5 NL (because I'm out of practice) that I don't dare play it (at that level) anymore when I'm out of town.

Last time I tried to play at that level (after moving to Colorado, land of 5 buck limie no fold 'em hold 'em low limit poker), I had not been able to play for close to a year, and I lost 300 bucks in less than an hour over in CB Iowa.

Lucky for me, I spent almost a month in Vegas during the WSOP, and brushed up on my skills again by playing 1/2 NL poker.

Maybe next trip back home to either CB Iowa (I grew up in Omaha, and my Mom and brother still live there), or to Ceasars Indiana (my son and his wife still live in the Cincy/Dayton area), I will be able to get back on the horse so to speak, and give 2/5 NL another try again.

FWIW, I love Ceasars Indiana, and I placed 13th in the WSOP Circuit Event (event number 1) back in March of this year, out of a field of 713.

They are sooo lucky there, to have a Harrahs property closeby, I'm green with envy about it.

Right now, I find it amazing I'm getting so excited about the Heartland Poker Tour who is coming to our deseart Island of no Fold 'em Hold Poker here in Colorado, aka Blackhawk, in October.

Even then, it's not a real event in the truest sense of it, because the only way into the money, the only way to play in the HPT ME, is to get in via a qualifier satallite, due to Colorado's wacky gaming laws (max buying can only be $500 bucks for a tourney).

The OP should count his blessings, and so should others who have casinos where you can play REAL poker (aka real tournament events and for cash games, NLHE poker, or even high stakes limit poker) within a reasonable driving distance from their homes.

Yeah it sucks if the rakes are higher, or you have to wait a little longer, because of lack of competition in the area, but at least those players have that chance to play REAL poker, instead of the crap we here in Denver have to play that tries to PASS for poker.

BTW, FWIW, I know from past experience that Ceasars Indiana will provide you a pager that will work at the very least, anywhere on the boat (it might even work off the boat, out in the shopping/Dining areas too, but I never tried it that far myself).

All you need to do is give them your Drivers licence to hold, and boom, they give you a pager. When your seat is ready, they page you, and I think you have like 10 min to show up to claim your seat.

Then you can go off and get something to eat at the snack bar, play a little BJ or Craps, or what ever else trips your fancy.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played at Belterra since Argosy opened. Argosy has a nice room and the games are good. The guys running it are from the Goldstrike in Tunica, Roger and Terry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the last time I was in Cincy when my house finally sold after a year of being on the market, my son and his wife took me down there to the Argosy.

My son tends to play like a maniac, so neither myself nor his wife wanted to be seated at the same table as he was. So, he sat down at one table, and I at another.

Of course I got seated next to the drunk guy (lucky for me, he was on my right), but managed to take all the guys chips, after being patient and waiting for hands to take his bankroll from him.

My son's wife sat down at the same table as me after the drunk guy reloaded (she's just learning poker, so she tends to be a bit of a calling station, and the drunk guy failed to realize that (even though she kept telling them she was new to poker) and tried to bluff her all the time), and managed to take his reload. A few times as we played, the drunk guy made some nasty comments about women in poker pointed at both me and my son's wife, and at one time, my son's wife had to say something to my son, to keep my son from leaving his table, coming over to ours, and going postal on the guy.

Overall, I liked the Argosy, and wished the poker room had been in place when I lived there (it opened up about 3 to 6 months I think, after I moved to Denver, after over a year of promises of getting a poker room (because it's customers were going in droves over to Belterra to play both poker and the slots)).

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

I invited you to some games, Cincy, but I did not hear from you. There are some social clubs that spread $0.50/$1 NLHE. These are safe games, without any rake.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

Grasshopper3r, I just replied back to you. BTW, I have an idea about how perhaps form a home league for a seat to the WSOP ME next year, that I'd like to discuss with you.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]


3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.


Is this correct, do they charge a seat fee and take a rake? Or is it a BBJ $1. Also, if so does it apply to the bigger NL games?

Also, what is the max buy in and can you reload at any time?

[/ QUOTE ]

for the no limit games the only rake is a $6 per half hour time fee. the 1-2 no limit game also qualifies for the bad beat jackpot, so they take $1 out of all pots over $20. the 2-5 game is not affiliated with the bad beat. the max buy in for 1-2 is $300, for 2-5 is $1k, you can reload to the max any time between hands.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

Yeah, in fact, until I went to vegas last month (where South Point seemed to be an exception), I had never heard of anyplace where any NL game, or any limit game higher than 10/20 qualified for the Bad Beat Jackpot.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
My main problems

1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to...
It is good business to charge the maximum the market will bear.

[/ QUOTE ]

No [censored] it's good for business. And bad for players. You do realize you just tried to counterargue the the premise "Higher rake is bad for players," don't you?

[ QUOTE ]


2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop & turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear. this paragraph doesn't make any sense. I think skilled players understand how to play but that game isn't designed for skilled players, it is for loose ass donkeys that like to play every hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

How does it not make sense? Maybe re-read it. What is this stuff about who the game is designed for? Who cares? Again, these hybrid games require strategic changes for good players. Those changes aren't known right now (haven't been written about or discussed in any significant detail, as "normal" games have been). Even for the players who are intelligent enough to reason out and calculate some strategic changes, there's no empirical data to verify them, making their long-term use risky.

[ QUOTE ]

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.
I think this is player dependant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't. At those tables with sloppy, inexperienced players, you're lucky to see 25 hands/hour. With a $6/half hour time charge, it costs $48 to see 100 hands at 1/2, so you need to clear 12PTBB/100 to win in the long run. If you factor out the 2PTBB/100ish average 1/2NL rake, it's still not beatable. Add in a fraction of the $1/hand BBJ rake and it's unbeatable (a fraction because there is, of course, some chance you'll win the BBJ...but it's still -EV, though variable on how much $ is in the pot). I don't think it's player dependent



4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits.
I haven't waited more than an hour in a really long time other than when the WSOP Circuit events are in town, of course.

5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US.
Ameristar in St Charles MO used to be 50 cents an hour. I don't know the current comp rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your last two comments are valid. Calling ahead is still nice though long waits are still somewhat common. There are casinos with worse comping than Caesars, but they're very few, and aren't in Southern Indiana.

Even with all of that considered, it's still usually your best bet due to the game selection.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

How does it not make sense? Maybe re-read it. What is this stuff about who the game is designed for? Who cares? Again, these hybrid games require strategic changes for good players. Those changes aren't known right now (haven't been written about or discussed in any significant detail, as "normal" games have been).
better read a few more poker books, strategy for no foldem holdem has not only been written about, it has been well covered



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.
I think this is player dependant.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I don't. At those tables with sloppy, inexperienced players, you're lucky to see 25 hands/hour. With a $6/half hour time charge, it costs $48 to see 100 hands at 1/2, so you need to clear 12PTBB/100 to win in the long run. If you factor out the 2PTBB/100ish average 1/2NL rake, it's still not beatable. Add in a fraction of the $1/hand BBJ rake and it's unbeatable (a fraction because there is, of course, some chance you'll win the BBJ...but it's still -EV, though variable on how much $ is in the pot). I don't think it's player dependent
LOL, I guess I need to translate, if you can't beat the rake against those loose ass donkeys, you suck at No Limit.

Re: Indiana <doesn\'t> suck--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

First trip to caesars saturday -- we've played several times at argosy and belterra so far this year...

I hadn't heard about the 2/4-4/8 game -- does that run all the time? That actually sounds kind of interesting...

Their web site does mention both 2/4 and 4/8 -- do they spread a normal 2/4 game and if not is 4/8 regularly spread? Any mid limits in action on a saturday or is most of that dead now?

Is the time charge strictly for NL?

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]

better read a few more poker books, strategy for no foldem holdem has not only been written about, it has been well covered



[/ QUOTE ] Can you read? If you seriously think there's no strategic difference between a normal 2/4 game and a 2/4-4/8 game, then your grasp of poker fundamentals is way too low for you to even comment on any of this. And no, it's not limited to playing "no fold em hold em," a phrase I've never heard uttered by anyone who actually knows how to play cards.


[ QUOTE ]
LOL, I guess I need to translate, if you can't beat the rake against those loose ass donkeys, you suck at No Limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

For &gt;13PTBB/100? Tell you what, get onto any NL forum on this site (yes, including the micros), and put up the following poll: "Is it possible to sustain a 13PTBB+/100 winrate in the long run at 1/2, without cheating, yes or no?" If anyone answers "yes" and gives a rational and logically correct explanation, I'll transfer you $100.

Of course, if you didn't already know that, then you there's no way you can have any kind of meaningful understanding of NLHE. More evidence for what I wrote above.

Oh, and if you're going to post idiotic garbage, at least have the courtesy to not be an ass while you do it.

A great example of how meaningless a high post count is. By the way, when and what do you play at Caesars? I'd love to share your company at a table.

Re: Indiana <doesn\'t> suck--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
First trip to caesars saturday -- we've played several times at argosy and belterra so far this year...

I hadn't heard about the 2/4-4/8 game -- does that run all the time? That actually sounds kind of interesting...

Their web site does mention both 2/4 and 4/8 -- do they spread a normal 2/4 game and if not is 4/8 regularly spread? Any mid limits in action on a saturday or is most of that dead now?

Is the time charge strictly for NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

2/4-4/8 is regular. Pretty sure time charge is just for NL.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
A great example of how meaningless a high post count is. By the way, when and what do you play at Caesars? I'd love to share your company at a table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tuesday and Fridays in the afternoons when my business allows. You'll have to give a description otherwise I'll never be able pick you out from all the others that think they know everything and have no manners.

PS. I am relatively certain that your win rate should be calculated after the rake. If I understand your posistion correctly, there are no and can never be any winning players in the $1-2 NL game at Caesar's IN and that just isn't the case.

Edited because I decided to check Statking. I have a small sample size in the game but am winning a small blind per hour and I suck at NL it is my worst game and if I can beat the rake then you are completely full of [censored].

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]


Can you read? If you seriously think there's no strategic difference between a normal 2/4 game and a 2/4-4/8 game, then your grasp of poker fundamentals is way too low for you to even comment on any of this. And no, it's not limited to playing "no fold em hold em," a phrase I've never heard uttered by anyone who actually knows how to play cards.




[/ QUOTE ]

Come to Colorado Buddy (where the maximum bet allowed is only 5 bucks, and NL poker is but a memory to me, something I can only play when I'm outside of this crappy state), they'll teach ya what the phrase really means (complete with major dings to your wallet, as they take your money with 9, duce off suit (capped of course before the flop) when they bingo on the river, when their gutshot whatever hits on the river) here, in less than an hour, as they (the locals here) play any two cards to the river, and rip your preimium hands to shreads in a heartbeat.

No Fold 'em Hold 'em is also called, Lotto Poker, Circus poker, and Bingo Poker.

I invite you to come to Blackhawk and play in the Heartland Poker Tour event in October, play in what passes for live action here (top cash game allowed here is 5/5 limit, Dealers Choice) and see for yourself just how great you really have it at Ceasars Indiana (and other casinos like that that allow for higher limits of poker (like 10/20 and above) and NL poker).

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can you read? If you seriously think there's no strategic difference between a normal 2/4 game and a 2/4-4/8 game, then your grasp of poker fundamentals is way too low for you to even comment on any of this.

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LOL, you must be brain damged or high. You don't even remember what you posted. Scroll up buddy, you said these type of games have never been written about and skilled players don't know how to adjust. I said, "Buy a book" because no foldem holdem games have been written about.

I have not made a single comment leading anyone , with a clear mind, to believe there are no differences in strategy required for these games. I wonder what kind of weird neural pathways induced this rant? I think you might be wacked.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

Please allow me to respond to this slander. If you want to make accusations about a property, you should probably gather as much information as possible. This will help you avoid looking foolish in the end.

My main problems

1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to...

A $6 time rake has been our Time rake since we began running these NL games. We ask the regular $1-$2 NL players if they would like to be included in the BBJ, and their answer was a resounding YES! While I agree that $6 is somewhat high, the average rake on the game if we took our normal 10% would be much higher. Do the math!

2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop &amp; turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear.

For a person that knows so much about Win %, you sure haven't figured out that no matter how hard you try, you are never going to outplay the lower limit players. These guys are at the Casino with $100 in their pockets and they couldn't care less about Pot Odds, or Pre-Flop Strategies. If you are basing your 2-4-4-8 play around a book, Good Luck!

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.

Once again, you post is wrong. We only charge EITHER, a timed rake or take a rake from each pot. Not both as you suggested.

4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits.

When the traffic situation with I-64 arose we altered our Phone In time to 40 minutes, instead of 20. If you have waited over an hour for a game, then I apologize. That is rare. That being said, if you started a list of interest for a game that was not already running, and we couldn't get enough players to start a table, then it is a definite possibility. That could not be classified as the Casino's fault, could it?

5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US.

"The worst Comps of any Casino in the US." We offer $.75/hour towards comps. These comps can be used at any food venue, and we are in the process of allowing our players to use these comps at Retail Shops and for Hotel stays. I am sure that your online site that you play at offers much better comps than us, but we are competitive with all Rooms in our region, and more generous than many established Casino's around the country.


Finally, we thank you for the compliment about the Staff. It sounds to me like you had a bad experience at our Casino and are trying to make everyone else feel the same way about us that you do. I would love to sit down and discuss this theory with you. Please come and find me if you wander our way again. Thanks and have a great day!

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

Man, lots 'o hate to be had here. I've been all over IN, MI, and IL to various casinos and while Ceasers isn't my favorite (French Lick is my choice) I certainly wouldn't say it's the "worst in the midwest/country/whatever".

Sometimes waits are long, this happens anywhere. If there's a ton of people, you get a list. I've waited 5 min and up to a hour or so at Ceasers, just depends on timing and how many people thought just like you did.

Timed rake sucks, I'll make no apologies there. Every place with timed rake should change, but that's just my take. I've always explained it thusly: If you buddy said here's $60, oh can I have 4-5 of that back, you'd probably be ok giving it to him, but if every half hour he just asked for $6, you'd probably get pissed.

As for the games, they're great anywhere. If you can't beat either timed 1/2 or raked 1/2, you can't beat NL. No shame in it, practice and come back and beat the game, we've all been there.

In conclusion, stop bashing my state. Indiana is fine, and the Colts are great [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Cody

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

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only no limit games they run are 1/2 NL $300 max and 2/5 $1k max.

They have all these damn limit games running all the time so the wait is 1-2 hours every time.

Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.

Anyway to offer a different game structure? wait is 1-2 hours every time

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What are you bitching about? This post seems really lame.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

Hi Jimmy! Fancy meeting you here! I just sent you a PM, and I want to say here, well done, and well said!

Some people just don't know how lucky they are to be able to play at Ceasars Indiana, that room rocks, and I sure wish I was back there again, so I could play there.

Your the ONLY Harrahs property I know of BTW, in the entire USA, that has for the last TWO years (maybe 3?), had a WEEKLY qualifying satallite tournament into the Vegas WSOP ME, OPEN to EVERYONE (IE: You don't have to play x amount of hours to be able to play in it) who has the entry fee, and on a SATURDAY no less, and (if I'm remembering correctly) for only $225 each, awarding up to 3 10k seats.

Kudo's to you guys for that too! No other property in the Harrahs chain that I know of that has a poker room has done something like that (especially on a weekly basis as well), to help people who normally couldn't afford to buy directly into the WSOP ME, get there via a qualfier at thier 'home' casino (and on a weekly basis, and Saturday to boot, when most people are off of work and can actually play in it without having to take off of work to do so).

Because of this, I feel a lot of pepole, including a lot more of the women in the area, have been able to play in the ME, who otherwise might not of been able to.

I might also take this time to point out to the OP, that if Ceasars Indiana wasn't doing something right, then there wouldn't BE a wait to get into a game, because people would be driving to Belterra, Argosy, or down to Tunica to play.

The very fact that they've grown the poker room from when I first stepped into it several years ago, from a small corner in the room crammed with 10 tables, to what it is today (half the floor it's on), speaks volumes to the dedication that the staff there has for the poker players who play there.

It's not easy getting TPTB at a casino to give up floor space where slot machines used to sit, to put in poker tables with dealers that need to be paid a salary. However, the poker room staff fought hard for that very thing, and now there are enough tables that when they have a tourney, there can be over 700 players or more participating. Heck, I remember when the events they (Cesars Indiana) used to have, would max out at 50 people, a full week before the event happened, simply because they didn't have enough tables to support more than that (because they had to keep half the tables open for cash games, as per the Casino Powers that be)!

I watched as the poker room staff at Ceasars Indiana fought hard for us players, to make the room bigger and better for all the players, to bring in big tournaments, and give us comps at least for the snack bar (I remember when you guys had to fight hard for even that, and when you guys had a seperate accounting system from the Casino players card), and now, you get credit on your Harrah's card for your play (something that wasn't so a few years back).

Kudos to Jimmy and his team for all the hard work they have done and are doing for making Ceasars Indiana a better place to play at, day by day, month by month, year by year.

I only wish I was still there, so I could enjoy it on a regular basis, instead of being trapped (as this was the only place I could find employment in the telecom sector) in the land of no flold 'em hold 'em Colorado.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

There you go, the poker room manager just invited you to stop by and talk. How many times has that happened in recent history? Jimmy really cares about the players and is doing his best to make Caesar's IN the best it can be.

You guys have to remember, it is a Harrah's property and he is limited in what he can do.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

This whole thread is retarded. Hour long waits are so rare. I have been playing there frequently for 3 years and have never waited longer than like 15 minutes, but I am willing to play first game that opens then switch when the game I want is called.

They dont do time + rake. Just 6$/30 minutes.

2-4-4-8 is easy to beat if you are not brain dead.

1-2 is beatable if you are not brain dead.

The comps do suck. I would not even bitch about 75 cents an hour if it didnt use to be one dollar an hour. Lowering it is terrible. Plus I had like 70 dollars on my comp balance and when they switched systems they told me too bad it gets erased.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

I play pretty extensively at Caesar's IN. I'd say I put more hours in there than almost anyone on this forum.

1-2 NL there is definitely beatable. There are many players especially on weekend who will give you all their chips with top pair or overpair regardless of action in the hand.

A good player can expect to win at least a full stack per 5 hours with proper game selection.

Yes, the rake is sickeningly high, but think about it this way: If you play 25 hours a week, you will be paying $300 in rake plus about $30 in BBJ. And at 25 hours, you should be making about $1500 - $330 rake/BBJ + tips = $1100 roughly.

You should still turn a nice profit, about 20bb/hr worth. This might seem huge, but I cannot emphasize just how bad these players are. You can play a very nit style and still get paid off with for a whole stack.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

Steamboatin, please quit posting. Thank you.

Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
 

i play the 1/2 game at caesars almost every day and it is definitely beatable. i do wish they would exclude the game from the bad beat jackpot though.