$1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

Villian is 100% unknown. I guess there are two ways we can look at the river. He could have a stronger overpair or a flush. It seems unlikely he has a boat as there are two pairs on the board. But, it also looks like my hand is weak, possibly AQ/AK or maybe random junk/small pair. The river call seems standard, no?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($1656.25)
UTG ($1055)
UTG+1 ($965)
MP1 ($1000)
MP2 ($2351)
CO ($1123.50)
wpr101 ($985)
SB ($1215)

Preflop: wpr101 is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">wpr101 raises to $100</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $70.

Flop: ($215) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">wpr101 bets $145</font>, CO calls $145.

Turn: ($505) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, wpr101 checks.

River: ($505) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $300</font>, wpr101 calls $300.

Final Pot: $1105

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

I would call after checking this turn.
He could have mid pair, and puting you on ak, or complete air.
But after checking turn on this board, you look very weak, and will be bluffed alot.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

i would bet the turn. the way he played i dont think he will ever have AA/KK/QQ. even sets will CR on the flop most of the time as well as draws. you pretty much have to call and expect to see TT would be my best guess.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would bet the turn. the way he played i dont think he will ever have AA/KK/QQ. even sets will CR on the flop most of the time as well as draws. you pretty much have to call and expect to see TT would be my best guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The exception to this would be QQ. Infact I'll bet he turns up with QQ/TT more then anything else in this spot.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

that 6 his a great card for you... plz continue betting

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

You have to pay-off on almost any river after checking the turn, so bet it... you trapped yourself.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

standard,

the only thing I would change is flatting pre against some and Bet/calling the turn against some.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

I bet the turn.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

just call preflop

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

I think I fold river.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

This is prob very marginal. I know there were folds in front PF, but FR still plays a little different in general. So many players play loads of tables and get into the nitty style, so if I expect to be good often enough to make this call it's only just and I'm not even sure about that.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
just call preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

I often do just call preflop, especially against the tighter players. But your point is that our hand has a lot of value and since we cannot do anything against a four bet probably just better to call? Also you figure there's a good chance you can stack QQ+ on a Jxx board, or if the board comes all low cards we can call one or two streets of betting.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have to pay-off on almost any river after checking the turn, so bet it... you trapped yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I really trapped myself as the river looks like a call given the pot odds, my range, his range, etc.

Isn't there some merit to checking behind the turn? He's going to fold most midpairs and probably TT. But if we wait to the river our line looks a lot weaker. Let's assume that he has 77/88/TT. He would probably fold to the turn bet yet call a river bet if we check behind. We also give him a chance to bluff or think he is value betting TT.

I definetly consider QQ in his range. In fact I might play QQ like villian did in this hand. Also, people tend to slowplay KK/AA a lot more in FR from my personal experience.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
just call preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

(i dont necessarily disagree, i would like your reasoning though)

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

fold river, the rest is fine.

and call preflop a significant amount of the time, especially if there are squeeze-abusers in the blinds.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

by checking the turn u put yourself in a tricky spot on the river... suddenly the hand opens up and it is anyones again. by betting this turn u will have the choice of whether to check behind or value bet the river. i would still call on the end tho. dont like your chances but i would call

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

Bet turn, fold river.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold river, the rest is fine.

and call preflop a significant amount of the time, especially if there are squeeze-abusers in the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good advice here as usual. I think QQ will be shown here very often (with no reads on aggressiveness of villain) and if villain called with a smaller pair on the flop, then i dont call river hoping that villain will turn a showdown hand into a bluff at river without more reads.

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

lol @ call preflop

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

I'd like to hear more from all the guys who said they'd call pf here

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

Deffo raise preflop. Turn bet/fold; right?

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear more from all the guys who said they'd call pf here

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: $1,000 FR: I\'m confused about this JJ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear more from all the guys who said they'd call pf here

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think their reasoning is that JJ has a lot of value but it cannot withstand a 4 bet at FR. Personally, I think it's definetly strong enough to 3 bet I guess as a semi bluff if you want to call it that.