K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

Bizarre situation tonight in the 5/10nl at Venetian. I raise a straddle pot to 110 and get one caller. Flop comes QJx, check/check. Turn is an ace, check/check. River is a brick, he checks, I bet 200 and now he springs to life and raises another 300... eh whatever I call w/ AK.

He flips up K-Q-J. He has three cards. FLOOR!

Floor rules that there has been too much action for a misdeal (duhhhhhhhh) and his hand is dead. The guy flips out saying it's not his fault he was dealt three cards, and that he will leave if he does not get his money back. Which is a problem because he is a huge donk.

The dealer had pulled in the 200's from the river but his 300 raise and my call were still in front of us, so the floor says something to the effect of "you can ask the other player to refund your 300" and he looks at me and I oblige since I'm a nice guy. Dude thanks me and ends up staying and it becomes a running joke for the rest of the night as everyone checks to make sure they only have 2 cards when they are in a pot.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] live poker.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

It was not his fault that he got three but it was his fault he played all the way to the river with them! That's funny though. Was he serious about playing three cards or did he just think it would be a joke at the showdown? Surely he was not serious at a 5/10.

Hope the rest of the table thanked you later for keeping him around.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

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The dealer had pulled in the 200's from the river but his 300 raise and my call were still in front of us, so the floor says something to the effect of "you can ask the other player to refund your 300"

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that seems like a pretty [censored] thing for him to say

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bizarre situation tonight in the 5/10nl at Venetian. I raise a straddle pot to 110 and get one caller. Flop comes QJx, check/check. Turn is an ace, check/check. River is a brick, he checks, I bet 200 and now he springs to life and raises another 300... eh whatever I call w/ AK.

He flips up K-Q-J. He has three cards. FLOOR!

Floor rules that there has been too much action for a misdeal (duhhhhhhhh) and his hand is dead. The guy flips out saying it's not his fault he was dealt three cards, and that he will leave if he does not get his money back. Which is a problem because he is a huge donk.

The dealer had pulled in the 200's from the river but his 300 raise and my call were still in front of us, so the floor says something to the effect of "you can ask the other player to refund your 300" and he looks at me and I oblige since I'm a nice guy. Dude thanks me and ends up staying and it becomes a running joke for the rest of the night as everyone checks to make sure they only have 2 cards when they are in a pot.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] live poker.

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PokerFink--

Wow. I've given back a lot of chips in my day but I wouldn't have given those. You gave him a freeroll--if you'd folded, the situation might not have been discovered.

I very much understand that sometimes you'll want to keep bad players in the game, but I think a quick explanation is all you should give here. Giving him $300 doesn't make sense either justice-wise or financially (the difference to you between him and the next guy on the list is rarely $300). Whether he meant to or not, he took a shot at you with an illegal hand. Various poker/sports/etc. analogies are too obvious to state.

Also, I've frequently seen floors do similar passive-aggressive things. They're almost always terrible and usually serve to unfairly displace social pressure onto a player.* If we're lucky RR will chime in with his thoughts on these sorts of situations.

--Nate

*One that I remember vividly was when a floorperson gave a bad ruling at a final table of a big Caesars tournament (gave a shortish-stacked Scott Fischman an F-bomb penalty for something he said quietly, to another player, before cards were in the air, at the end of a break). "Well, I have to give the penalty, but if the rest of you want to play slow that's up to you."

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

Although I'm usually a nice guy at the table and willing to forgive action or split pots in the face of bizarre circumstances or numbskull actions on the part of my opponent, this clown tried to c/r you off of what he assumed wasn't a great hand. If you had folded, he never would have had to show his three cards.

Unless it was obvious that he didn't know he had three cards (e.g. two of the cards were clearly stuck together when he showed them), I would have kept his money, even if it would have caused him to leave.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

He looked just as shocked as everyone else when he tabled three cards. I honestly believe that he did not know he had three cards. He was a nice, genuine guy that was throwing around money after cashing in the ME, not a rounder trying to angleshoot.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bizarre situation tonight in the 5/10nl at Venetian. I raise a straddle pot to 110 and get one caller. Flop comes QJx, check/check. Turn is an ace, check/check. River is a brick, he checks, I bet 200 and now he springs to life and raises another 300... eh whatever I call w/ AK.

He flips up K-Q-J. He has three cards. FLOOR!

Floor rules that there has been too much action for a misdeal (duhhhhhhhh) and his hand is dead. The guy flips out saying it's not his fault he was dealt three cards, and that he will leave if he does not get his money back. Which is a problem because he is a huge donk.

The dealer had pulled in the 200's from the river but his 300 raise and my call were still in front of us, so the floor says something to the effect of "you can ask the other player to refund your 300" and he looks at me and I oblige since I'm a nice guy. Dude thanks me and ends up staying and it becomes a running joke for the rest of the night as everyone checks to make sure they only have 2 cards when they are in a pot.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] live poker.

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After reading your post, and replies- I too would have done the same.

I want to keep loose players with cash at the table. Hope you were able to get some money from him in later hands.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

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I want to keep loose players with cash at the table. Hope you were able to get some money from him in later hands.

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Sure you want to keep him at the table so you can get his money. But you can get his money now. And it should be your money. Unless you have reason to believe he has a whole more where that came from, his money is mine.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

If I honestly believed the guy had no idea he had 3 cards, I'd let him keep the $300 too. I'm just too nice of a guy. I'm not saying that he is "owed" it and obviously, by the rules, it is your pot. However, while I can't imagine making the mistake he did, I try to remember the lesson of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And I know I'd be very grateful if the other guy let me have my $300 back in a situation like that.

Again, I don't know how you could play to the river and not know you had 3 cards, but if you thought he was honest, I'd have done the same.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

I look at my cards one time, so I think it's possible to make this mistake if you see two and don't look again. Very nice of you to let him keep the $300. I would have done the same if I thought he was genuine. Hope you got it from him later [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

Okay, idiot noob observation on this one which is probably WAY off. But some of the previous comments were based on the assumption that this guy knew he had 3 cards and was actually trying to shoot an angle with it which has since been refuted by OP.


If it wasn't a really dumb angle-shoot and it was just a situation where 2 cards were stuck and he didn't even know he had 3 cards then I'm not sure I see why you can't declare the hand dead even after all the action had been taken.

Or instead of trying to reconstruct all the betting and refunding the guys their blinds, etc perhaps just the two of you splitting the pot because you are the only 2 left with cards but it's impossible to determine an actual winner of the hand.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

Cmon...you must not play live that often?
Its a dead hand...the guy got 3 cards. Id laugh my ass off and chop the pot. next hand.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

Some people might play the hand the same way lol...knowing its a dead pot so why not try and steal.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

Angle or not, the only real question is do you be a nice guy and let him keep the $300 so he can stick around and give it away. It's not his money any more.

If you play all the way to showdown with three cards, even if you didn't know you had three cards, you have no hand and no claim to the pot. It's one of those "protect your hand" things. Like if you play a hand blind and when you turn it up at showdown and find a joker, you're SOL. "I didn't know" doesn't help you.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

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The guy flips out saying it's not his fault he was dealt three cards, and that he will leave if he does not get his money back. Which is a problem because he is a huge donk.


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I'm not sure you should want this guy at the table. When a player tries to get away with playing three cards, it suggests he's willing to try to get away with quite a bit more.

I'd take his money and send him on his way. Eithical donks are on the waiting list.

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

Because if you try to steal with what you know to be an invalid hand and get caught, you don't get the pot or your uncalled steal bet/raise back.

And because you're basically asking "why not break the rules if it gets me free money?"

Re: K-Q-J Not A Good Hand, Sir
 

I think you did the right thing, and it's gross how many people are giving you a hard time about being fair. You're a poker player and you made a read (he didn't know he had three cards) and went with it. If he really thought he had QJ, then you got lucky that there was a third card stuck in there. Otherwise you get scooped.

Always trust your reads, except when you're playing against donks like me who will bluff into you with a King low in hi/lo chip declare. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]