LLNL in Los Angeles
 

I have a question not worth its own thread, so I used the search going back at least 6 months to find a thread about these games and couldn't find anything appropriate. There are a number of threads about the mid-stakes LHE and NL games in LA, but none discussing the LLNL games I would be interested in. I figure this thread can be a kind of catch-all for discussions about rooms and games around LA for those looking to visit the area and play some low limit NL while they are there.

Anyway, my question: I have two trips to LA with friends and family coming up in the next couple months, and I want to try to get away and play some LLNL while there. One is to Anaheim and the other to Venice Beach. Does anyone know what card rooms are convenient from those places, and what games and structures are spread there?

Thanks in advance.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

The two closest Casino to Venice Beach are Hollywood Park (located in Inglewood,) and Larry Flint's Huster Casino (located in Gardena).

When I am in LA, I usually play at Hustler. The LLNL action at both casinos are the same. Hollywood Park is totally classless. Hustler just changed their LLNL game from a capped 50 buy in, to 50-100 buy in, the blinds are 1-2. I think that the four dollar rake is too high, unless there is a lot of action and money on the table. I usually play 100-300, the players are pretty bad, but there always seems to be one or two sharks at the table too. The blinds are 2-5.

There is also a 300-500 buy in, with 5-5 blinds.


From Anahiem, I think that Hawaian Gardens is the Closest. I have never played there. Oceans 11 in Oceanside is a great casino, but it is a 45 minute drive from Anahiem.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

For Anahiem Commerce is a quick drive up the 5. I don't play it but pretty sure they have a 100 buy in NL. IF not I know they have 200 NL

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

If you can figure out the 30 minute window that traffic is light on the I5, both Commerce and the Bike are reasonable driving distance from Anaheim. I agree Hawaiian Gardens is closer.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

How low are you trying to play? The Bike has a 40NL game. They used to have a 80NL(I think) but I'm not sure if they still do.

There are a few threads on LA games here. Check out this chart at tworags.com for some info on limits. I'm not sure how accurate it is though.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
How low are you trying to play?

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I'm rolled for traditional 1/2 blinds 200NL. These <100BB BI games are tricky to figure what I'd be good to play. Does 2/5 /$200 play like 200NL with big blinds, or like 500NL with a table of shortstackers? I want to find a balance where a couple beats or mis-played hands won't hurt my roll (2/5/$500 is too big, is 2/5/$200 also??), but where I'm still +EV (20BB stacks?? seriously?????).

Thanks for the link.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
How low are you trying to play? The Bike has a 40NL game. They used to have a 80NL(I think) but I'm not sure if they still do.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Bike has an $80 fixed with 1-3 blinds. The $100 game has 2-3 blinds and free food from the get go (in the $80 I think you need a card and three hours play). Both structures will have about two to five games.

Hawaiian Gardens is a good choice from the Anaheim area with the real small NL games located behind the bar area resulting in a real party atmosphere. Yeah, it's sort of a tent but its a clean tent. They are probably better at preventing dealer abuse than any other casino except perhaps The Hustler. Food is very good too although not comped until you play the $300 game.

As an aside, I'm not sure why HG gets so little respect on these forums.

~ Rick

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How low are you trying to play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm rolled for traditional 1/2 blinds 200NL. These <100BB BI games are tricky to figure what I'd be good to play. Does 2/5 /$200 play like 200NL with big blinds, or like 500NL with a table of shortstackers? I want to find a balance where a couple beats or mis-played hands won't hurt my roll (2/5/$500 is too big, is 2/5/$200 also??), but where I'm still +EV (20BB stacks?? seriously?????).

Thanks for the link.

[/ QUOTE ]

With that roll play the 2/3 blind $100 game (available just about everywhere) or the 1/3 blind $80 game at the Bike. Take reasonable stack building gambles early and be prepared to rebuy (also note in most clubs you can add $100 when below $50 or do a $150 rebuy if you go to the cloth). Key it to get deep in a good game and press edges while protecting your big stack (which is irreplaceable with the buyin rules).

In other words if you play a while you may find yourself with a fairly deep stack against against a few players who are also deep even though they aren't very good. It's essential to play with big edges when in a pot against them (against the short stack any edge is OK). Reason is if you take a small edge against a deep stack and lose you can't replace your stack meaning you lose the ability to take down their deep stacks later it the session (without grinding back a small stack, by that time they may leave).

Keep in mind when you have a deep stack the quality deep stack players can't take an empty seat and start deep. In essence your game is protected from other sharks.

Biggest mistake in these games is to stay long with a short stack because you are stuck. Better to get some rest and try again another day. Time to play extra long is when you get deep in a good game.

~ Rick

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

Also one thing that works in getting a bigger stack is sitting in one game, and when you ask for chips get an extra hundred or whatever. Then sit and immediately ask for a table change. Take the extra chips out your pocket when you move. Some players may be nits but usually you can get away with it. I dunno if it's worth the trouble or if you really care about having a bigger stack that much. I've done this at Hollywood Park before. A player asked if I was coming from another game and I said yes, they asked the floor and they confirmed. Again it just depends on how serious it is to you.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also one thing that works in getting a bigger stack is sitting in one game, and when you ask for chips get an extra hundred or whatever. Then sit and immediately ask for a table change. Take the extra chips out your pocket when you move. Some players may be honest and willing to play within the rules but if you don't care to be honest it's an unfortunate fact of life that usually you can get away with it. I dunno if it's worth the trouble or if you really care about having a bigger stack that much. I've done this at Hollywood Park before. A player asked if I was coming from another game and I said yes, they asked the floor and they confirmed. Again it just depends on how serious it is to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also one thing that works in getting a bigger stack is sitting in one game, and when you ask for chips get an extra hundred or whatever. Then sit and immediately ask for a table change. Take the extra chips out your pocket when you move. Some players may be nits but usually you can get away with it. I dunno if it's worth the trouble or if you really care about having a bigger stack that much. I've done this at Hollywood Park before. A player asked if I was coming from another game and I said yes, they asked the floor and they confirmed. Again it just depends on how serious it is to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a player I know to be good tries this, I give them a KITN. If it is an action player, I don't say a word. It isn't nitty; it is an intentional angle to circumvent a house rule that everyone else has to follow. I'd kick you in the nuts.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also one thing that works in getting a bigger stack is sitting in one game, and when you ask for chips get an extra hundred or whatever. Then sit and immediately ask for a table change. Take the extra chips out your pocket when you move. Some players may be nits but usually you can get away with it. I dunno if it's worth the trouble or if you really care about having a bigger stack that much. I've done this at Hollywood Park before. A player asked if I was coming from another game and I said yes, they asked the floor and they confirmed. Again it just depends on how serious it is to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a player I know to be good tries this, I give them a KITN. If it is an action player, I don't say a word. It isn't nitty; it is an intentional angle to circumvent a house rule that everyone else has to follow. I'd kick you in the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is sort of the way it works in some of the larger clubs where things are a little wilder. A loose/action/unskilled player takes a table change and if he tries to take a larger than normal buyin usually the players simply "don't notice" (and neither will I). But when a tough/skilled player does the same the table change buyin policy is generally enforced.

That said, I won't try to circumvent the rule with my own chips but with the above approach (which recognizes the realities) I want to avoid making it sound as if I'm "Holier than thou" as I may have in my other post.

~ Rick

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

crash, you can attempt to kick me in the nuts. I doubt you'd be very successful. I dunno how ethical kicking someone in the nuts is anyway, so I guess the kettle is calling the pot black.

I did it once and it didn't matter to me. The players are so bad I don't really care. I didn't feel like I was a dirty criminal and should have been thrown in jail or anything. There's a lot worse things that go on at the table.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a lot worse things that go on at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. First, you completely disregard the rules of the game and think it is normal. Then you justify by saying that other people are doing worse. Like what? Also breaking the rules of the game?

There are two kinds of people, the honest ones and the dishonest ones. I bet you also keep the extra chip from the player next to you when they accidentally count the change wrong.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
How low are you trying to play? The Bike has a 40NL game. They used to have a 80NL(I think) but I'm not sure if they still do.

There are a few threads on LA games here. Check out this chart at tworags.com for some info on limits. I'm not sure how accurate it is though.

[/ QUOTE ]

are there really buy-ins that low? the link you gave shows the commerce having the same $40 min/max buy-in. Can anyone tell me if that's true?

and, if it is, is it effectively enforced? Or do people find ways to get a couple hundred on the table within 15 mins of sitting down. . . ?

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's a lot worse things that go on at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. First, you completely disregard the rules of the game and think it is normal. Then you justify by saying that other people are doing worse. Like what? Also breaking the rules of the game?

There are two kinds of people, the honest ones and the dishonest ones. I bet you also keep the extra chip from the player next to you when they accidentally count the change wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

TBH, I didn't know it was such a big deal. Like I said, I've only done it once. Since I see everyone has their little panties in a bunch I'll cease and desist. If I was wrong, fine, I won't do it again. But you, sir, are also wrong for blindly assuming that I "keep the extra chip" or whatever. You don't know me and you have never played with me, so save the assumptions. Let's get back to the original topic, and stop the hijack.

[ QUOTE ]
are there really buy-ins that low? the link you gave shows the commerce having the same $40 min/max buy-in. Can anyone tell me if that's true?

and, if it is, is it effectively enforced? Or do people find ways to get a couple hundred on the table within 15 mins of sitting down. . . ?


[/ QUOTE ]

In my early poker days I played this game at Commerce. It was a while ago and before I really got into 2p2 so I can't say if they still have it. I would assume they do but I can't say for sure.

When I played there was only 1 table going. So trying to sneak chips in would basically be impossible. But since the stacks are so short it's relatively easy with a good run of cards to turn your stack into a couple hundred since you'll have to go all-in on the flop every hand pretty much, and everyone that loses just keeps rebuying. Conversely, you could lose that stack pretty quickly in this game too.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How low are you trying to play? The Bike has a 40NL game. They used to have a 80NL(I think) but I'm not sure if they still do.

There are a few threads on LA games here. Check out this chart at tworags.com for some info on limits. I'm not sure how accurate it is though.

[/ QUOTE ]

are there really buy-ins that low? the link you gave shows the commerce having the same $40 min/max buy-in. Can anyone tell me if that's true?

and, if it is, is it effectively enforced? Or do people find ways to get a couple hundred on the table within 15 mins of sitting down. . . ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I put that chart together have since updated it here...

LA Card room comparisons

The small stakes game buy-ins are enforced, but the games often play like re-buy tournaments. It's not uncommon to sit at the table and see 4-5 guys sitting with several buy-ins because of the bet, 3-bet shove action of short stacks. Note: if anyone sees errors in the chart, PM me. It's a work in progress, last update circa mid-June 07.

Edmond

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

interesting. I'm wondering if that's actually what I want to play at or not. . . .

Thanks a lot.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

Where's Paris Hilton? Looked all over for her

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

Does anyone have current info on the rake the Commerce, Bike, HG and Oceans pull in the baby NL games?

I thought the Commerce and Bike 1/2 40 min/max games have a $3 rake, taken as follows...50c pre-flop, $2 on the flop, 50c after the turn. Not sure about Hawaiian Gardens 1/2 20 min-max and 40 min-max games or Oceans 1/1 20-40 min-max.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Edmond

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

I'll do a little TR about my first foray into LA poker.

A good friend of mine wanted to get out of town for a while, so I took a couple days off work and took a 4-day weekend for a jaunt down to LA. We really didn't have a plan, but I intended to hit a poker room while down there. We decided to take the Pacific Caost Highway, aka Highway 1, all the way down. We got a beautiful day and the trip down was simply gorgeous. California is a beautiful state.

My friend actually helped me get into poker by letting me play on the Texas Holdem simulator he had, and by inviting me to his Silicon Valley homegame (that I never made it to), but that was years ago and I had no idea of his interest now. I felt him out on the way down, and he politely declined the invitation to join, and even when I mentioned they had games as low as $40, he said he'd just lose it. I figured my response would be the same if he was trying to get me to play a -EV game, so I let it go.

After dinner in Santa Barbara we finally landed in Anaheim, found a hotel within walking distance of Disneyland, and crashed out. We were up early Friday morning, and the plan was empty stomach drinking - to be drunk before we eat. All was not to go according to plan however. We rode Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, all the while scoping every stand and restaurant for booze, but we couldn't find any! Our stomachs won out and got fed first, but we wised up and realized there was no alcohol at Disneyland, so we headed over to California Adventure next door where they told us there was alcohol. Better yet, we stop at a mexican restaurant on the way, and 2 pitchers of margaritas, 4 beers, and 1 gin and tonic later we're stumbling into California Adventure. We find, much to our surprise the best roller-coaster at Disney there, and promptly ride it 3 times back to back. More margaritas, more beer, and to be honest the rest is a blur, but I'm quite sure we rode every roller-coaster at the 2 parks and never yacked. We catch some fancy multi-media light show, and the fireworks, and stumble back to the hotel for some much needed rest.

We sleep in a little bit and head up north on the 5 to get out of the OC and into LA proper. I have my friend drop me off at Commerce on the way, and he heads off to "explore the neighborhood". Meh, he's an enterprising sort, he'll figure it out.

Commerce is a great place to play cards. The room is huge and spacious, with high ceilings and excellent lighting. There's multiple brushes, and it takes me a few tries to find the one handling the $100 NL game, but once I do there's open seating and I plop down in seat 4 at table 25. The chip runners are kinda inefficient and slow, but the dealers seemed competent enough.

Chips on table 25! And I'm in the game.

So, my second hand at the table I'm UTG+1 and I look down at AJs and raise to $10. Old guy in MP calls and young asian in the blinds re-raises to $35. I'm thinking about it, decide I have at least 1 overcard, and decide to gambool. Feeling good I push my stack into the middle and say "all in." MP insta-calls, followed just as quickly by the BB, and I don't feel so good any more. MP flips QQ and BB flips AK and I'm basically drawing dead.

Chips on table 25!

On the next orbit I find KK in MP, and raise 3 limpers to $20, and we see the flop 5 ways. K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and EP player shoves, and his flushdraw hits.

Chips on table 25!

The BB comes around to me and I find AKo, I raise it up and see the flop against 2 other players. Flop comes AKQ and EP player has JTo.

Chips on table 25!

I've been sitting at the table 20 minutes and have already dropped 3 buyins. WTG me. Somewhere in here my friend texts me saying he's in Long Beach and to give him 40 minutes lead time when I want to go. I fold for a while, decide today isn't my day, and step outside to have a cigarette and ring my friend. "Yeah, you can get me anytime."

I'm up and down for the next hour and leave down $365 in two hours. I tell my friend that I broke even.

We check out the LA Museum of Contemporary Art, the Santa Monica Pier, hit a couple spots in Hollywood, swing through the Beverly Center, catch a movie at The Grove, and hit the road. We crash out at a Ramada on the Grape Vine, sleep in 'til noon, and bomb up I5 Sunday afternoon. Despite the sheer natural beauty of the PCH coming down, I gotta say I5 going home was the most fun part of the trip. My friend is an amateur race driver and has a 300hp sports car, and, not getting into specifics, we averaged about 95mph on the trip home. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Romantic dinner with the wife that night, and its back to the grind Monday morning.

For the record, I've never had a winning session my first time in any room, and my streak remains intact. I'll be back in December to dump chips at the Hustler.

Re: LLNL in Los Angeles
 

Awesome trip report!

[ QUOTE ]
I'm up and down for the next hour and leave down $365 in two hours. I tell my friend that I broke even.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man I know this line too well.