Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

From the sticky:

[ QUOTE ]
This forum is for limit holdem hands in the range of 10/20 to 40/80.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this refer to online playing or live?

Perhaps a short introduction is in order to clear up why I'm asking: I a long time microlimit player/poster who has recently moved to Henderson and interested in playing live (probably jumping in at 15/30). But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

Also, I've looked at www.allvegaspoker.com to see what games are housed where, but I don't know how up to date it is. Below is what I found. Does it sound about right (for any Vegas regulars out there)?

$10/20 - Binions (usually weekends), Ceasars (occasionally on weekends), Mirage (regularly)
$15/30 - Red Rock (occasionally), Venetian (regularly), Wynn (regularly), Bellagio (regularly with sometimes long waits)
$20/40 - Mirage (regularly)

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

it's online or live

and I can't really comment on all the ML games in vegas, but the wynn and bellagio have always been good to me.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

During WSOP might be different, but forget about Caesars.

Bellagio has 15/30 and 30/60 (along with 8/16)
Wynn has 15/30 and 30/60 (can't remember if they run 8/16)
Venetian sporatically has games.
Mirage has 10/20 and 20/40.

I have only played the Mirage 10/20, and Bellagio/Wynn 15/30. I enjoy the 15/30 game a lot.

My advice, start with the Bellagio 8/16 game, simply to get used to playing live, and some of the players. And live play is different from online play in general. That game requires between 300-600 on an average day to play.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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Wynn has 15/30 and 30/60 (can't remember if they run 8/16)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wynn offers 8-16.

bc

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been missing out on a lot if you haven't been reading this forum.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been missing out on a lot if you haven't been reading this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are lots of things I miss out on, and I accept that as a normal part of life. But rather than dwell on the time missed, I'll look ahead to see what I have to gain.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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My advice, start with the Bellagio 8/16 game, simply to get used to playing live, and some of the players. And live play is different from online play in general. That game requires between 300-600 on an average day to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you say "get used to playing live", do you mean with respect to the mechanics of live play? I've played live before multiple times over the last 5-6 years, and I'm pretty comfortable with the live poker room environment.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

Not just the mechanics, but the thinking behind it. Especially if you have been playing 6-max online. Online play is either a lot tighter (full ring) or a lot looser (6-max) than a live full game. And most shorthanded games never get as aggressive as the 6-max games online.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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I a long time microlimit player/poster who has recently moved to Henderson and interested in playing live (probably jumping in at 15/30).


[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any sense to me. I've never played microlimit online, but I can't imagine the games are anything like a live 15/30 game.

Why would you do this? Did you scratch up $10k playing .25/.50 on Pokerstars? Am I missing something here?

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not just the mechanics, but the thinking behind it. Especially if you have been playing 6-max online. Online play is either a lot tighter (full ring) or a lot looser (6-max) than a live full game. And most shorthanded games never get as aggressive as the 6-max games online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I've ever been in a live game that is nearly as aggressive as 6max online. I think I could pick the nine most tight aggressive players that I have played with and put them in a live game and It would be more passive than online. I've never really played limit anywhere but CAZ, may be different other places.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I a long time microlimit player/poster who has recently moved to Henderson and interested in playing live (probably jumping in at 15/30).


[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any sense to me. I've never played microlimit online, but I can't imagine the games are anything like a live 15/30 game.

Why would you do this? Did you scratch up $10k playing .25/.50 on Pokerstars? Am I missing something here?

[/ QUOTE ]

from what i remember of aaron, he posts fine and would easily beat a vegas 15/30 game, so don't dismiss it so fast. in fact while i haven't played online .25/.50 in a long time it wouldn't suprise me if it was on par with a 15/30 game live. remember, they play pretty friggin bad.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been missing out on a lot if you haven't been reading this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

joe, i barely read this forum. how much better do you think this forum is than say, small or micro?

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I a long time microlimit player/poster who has recently moved to Henderson and interested in playing live (probably jumping in at 15/30).


[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any sense to me. I've never played microlimit online, but I can't imagine the games are anything like a live 15/30 game.

Why would you do this? Did you scratch up $10k playing .25/.50 on Pokerstars? Am I missing something here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm doing this because I like to play poker casually. It's not part of my necessary income and I don't plan to play all the time. I'm not particularly concerned about having a 300BB bankroll before I get started.

I didn't play as much casino poker as I had wanted to in San Diego (partly because I was already playing a weekly home game with friends, plus I had priorities which kept me from playing more), but now that I'm so close to lots of games, I would like to make the effort to try to get more live action.

FWIW, in my mind, I've been working with the imagined equality of $1/2 online = $10/20 live. I feel like I could probably hold my own in $5/10 SH, but that's an unproven conjecture. (I didn't want to take up the swings that those games offered on my limited income (grad student), and I chose not to maximize on the bonus whoring in the good ol' days to have a large bankroll built up.)

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

Aaron,

Go play 15/30 at least (Bellagio or Wynn; take your pick). Please. If I knew you better I'd probably tell you I'd take your action at the Bellagio 30 games.

Rob

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

the wynn is a lot nicer place to play

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm doing this because I like to play poker casually. It's not part of my necessary income and I don't plan to play all the time. I'm not particularly concerned about having a 300BB bankroll before I get started.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK cool, good luck.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been missing out on a lot if you haven't been reading this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

joe, i barely read this forum. how much better do you think this forum is than say, small or micro?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just read small and middle. Sometimes I read micro to see how players who are still learning think, but not often.

I like high too, but not too much happens there.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

high has an awesome thread about 4 handed with 97s. I don't know if I learned anything, but it was interesting to see the great minds think.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been missing out on a lot if you haven't been reading this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

joe, i barely read this forum. how much better do you think this forum is than say, small or micro?

[/ QUOTE ]

This forum shows flashes of old school Small Stakes as many of those player are still here. The threads dont move as fast through the front page as PrivateJoker keeps a tight ship. I exclusively read this forum and none of the others. What are you reading if not this CDC?

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

This forum is where a group of like 15 of us all discuss how to play hands against each other.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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This forum is where a group of like 15 of us all discuss how to play hands against each other.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's also high stakes too [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

But at least there is some content from others on how to beat up on fish.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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This forum is where a group of like 15 of us all discuss how to play hands against each other.

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Yeah, since you are always in my game and I'm trying to isolate you.... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been missing out on a lot if you haven't been reading this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

joe, i barely read this forum. how much better do you think this forum is than say, small or micro?

[/ QUOTE ]

This forum shows flashes of old school Small Stakes as many of those player are still here. The threads dont move as fast through the front page as PrivateJoker keeps a tight ship. I exclusively read this forum and none of the others. What are you reading if not this CDC?

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't read much of anything lately hence my infrequent posts lately, though whenever i do read midstakes 80% of the time i wonder why i do.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

Aaron,
I noticed your location is SD. Why not just go to oceans and sit in 8/16 or 20/40 and see how things go? The games are pretty good. Are you moving to become a live pro or just planning to move for other reasons?

If you want, I could probably come sit with you and observe your live skillz. Shoot me a PM if you are interested. if you are tough I may invest in you.

edit to say I am an idiot and didnt read that you already moved. enjoy the weather!

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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I exclusively read this forum and none of the others. What are you reading if not this CDC?

[/ QUOTE ]

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i haven't read much of anything lately hence my infrequent posts lately, though whenever i do read midstakes 80% of the time i wonder why i do.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. The HSNL forum is by far the best strategy forum on this site and it's not close.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

Im still in doubt whether live 60/120 counts as medium stakes. By the way, I played in the first Bellagio 60/120 that ran in ages (after convincing them to run it instead of a 100/200 game). It sucked though, it had no fish and was populated by 30/60 sharks like Roy Cooke. Then again, the Bel 100/200 game sucked even more so I played the 60 for a while.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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it had no fish and was populated by 30/60 sharks like Roy Cooke

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahaha. Oh wait, you were serious? Hahahaha

-DeathDonkey

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Im still in doubt whether live 60/120 counts as medium stakes. By the way, I played in the first Bellagio 60/120 that ran in ages (after convincing them to run it instead of a 100/200 game). It sucked though, it had no fish and was populated by 30/60 sharks like Roy Cooke. Then again, the Bel 100/200 game sucked even more so I played the 60 for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only played in that game a couple of times. But I think at least half of the people were on the waiting list to get in the 100 game.

I'll make a comment about the 60 and 100 game while I'm at it. I think any winning player at either of these games would have a higher hourly rate at 30/60. The difference between the good and bad players at these games just isn't enough to be worth much.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

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It sucked though, it had no fish and was populated by 30/60 sharks like Roy Cooke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last week MaxPower asked me if Roy Cooke was the mustachioed guy in my game. I said probably not because that guy generally sucked. It was him.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll make a comment about the 60 and 100 game while I'm at it. I think any winning player at either of these games would have a higher hourly rate at 30/60. The difference between the good and bad players at these games just isn't enough to be worth much.

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comparing 30/60 hourly to 60/120 hourly *maybe*, but 1/2 is frigging 3x bigger than 30/60. no chance thats true. i've never been in any 1/2 game anywhere where i felt i wasn't worth *at least* $100/hr which would be a fantastic rate at 30/60.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

Well, since this thread keeps getting bumped, I'll thank you all for the tip. I made close to $1k in about 3.5 hours of play at the Wynn 15/30 and I think the game was great.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]

mustachioed

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf?

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
From the sticky:

[ QUOTE ]
This forum is for limit holdem hands in the range of 10/20 to 40/80.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this refer to online playing or live?

Perhaps a short introduction is in order to clear up why I'm asking: I a long time microlimit player/poster who has recently moved to Henderson and interested in playing live (probably jumping in at 15/30). But before I do that, I want to lurk the forum here to see if my game is roughly on par with the types of games I hope to play.

Also, I've looked at www.allvegaspoker.com to see what games are housed where, but I don't know how up to date it is. Below is what I found. Does it sound about right (for any Vegas regulars out there)?

$10/20 - Binions (usually weekends), Ceasars (occasionally on weekends), Mirage (regularly)
$15/30 - Red Rock (occasionally), Venetian (regularly), Wynn (regularly), Bellagio (regularly with sometimes long waits)
$20/40 - Mirage (regularly)

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually start playing in the early afternoon. When ever I'm in Vegas I call the Venetian poker room to see what kind of limit games they have going. There has never once been a mid level game going.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it had no fish and was populated by 30/60 sharks like Roy Cooke

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahaha. Oh wait, you were serious? Hahahaha

-Hobbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it had no fish and was populated by 30/60 sharks like Roy Cooke

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahaha. Oh wait, you were serious? Hahahaha

-Hobbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Besides the mustache, what's with the Roy Cooke hate? Isn't he the guy who says he's never booked a losing month? I've only read his Cardplayer column but it seems like he's thinking and playing more or less standard. Considering that in the one time I've played 30/60 in Vegas (a year ago), the table was capped 5 ways every hand, standard solid play would absolutely make him a 30/60 shark.

(I'm just curious, I've never seen or played with the man)

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't make any sense to me. I've never played microlimit online, but I can't imagine the games are anything like a live 15/30 game.

Why would you do this? Did you scratch up $10k playing .25/.50 on Pokerstars? Am I missing something here?

[/ QUOTE ]
You should try some microlimit online. I wouldn't be suprised if the 0.25/0.50 game at Pokerstars is thougher then the 15/30 Live. I have played a lot of 10/20 Euro Live (approx 15/30$) and I'm pretty sure the 0.10/0.20 game is thougher, but I image that the games in Vegas are thougher with more 'sharks'.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

Actually you're right, in the context of crushing that particular 30/60 game he should be classified as a shark. What I was laughing at (and it doesn't apply just to Cooke as I couldn't even point him out in the poker room and no clue if I've ever played with him) is the typical live 30/60 pro has a lot of leaks that are keeping him from moving up. I just got back from almost a solid month of playing in the Bellagio and playing 60/120 or 100/200 vs the 30/60 games was night and day.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't make any sense to me. I've never played microlimit online, but I can't imagine the games are anything like a live 15/30 game.

Why would you do this? Did you scratch up $10k playing .25/.50 on Pokerstars? Am I missing something here?

[/ QUOTE ]
You should try some microlimit online. I wouldn't be suprised if the 0.25/0.50 game at Pokerstars is thougher then the 15/30 Live. I have played a lot of 10/20 Euro Live (approx 15/30$) and I'm pretty sure the 0.10/0.20 game is thougher, but I image that the games in Vegas are thougher with more 'sharks'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see these claims often and I believe it only applies to preflop play. Most online players have read the first chapter of some book to get some guidelines on which hands they should play. After the flop the mid level live players are better than the online small stakes players.

Re: Clarifying \"Medium Stakes\"
 

emerson: it all depends etc, but when you make too many preflop mistakes you could play like Schneids postflop and still lose money.