INS marriages
 

I have a close friend who married a girl so she could get in the country. The two of them represented themselves as married for the entire time that they were required by INS to be married (the process was supposed to take less than two years, but guv'ment being what it is they had to be married for five).

At the end of the five years, instead of getting divorced, they stayed married and are still married today (10 years after the initial marriage).

The interesting thing is that almost everyone to whom I tell this story knows someone who married completely for INS reasons AND it is often the case that the couple stayed together after their five year yoke was up.

So: Post here if you know anyone involved in an INS marriage (or if you were in an INS marriage or considered an INS marriage) and if there are interesting related details.

Re: INS marriages
 

I was involved in an "INS marriage." I'm certain that's a bad term for it, but ah well ...

I married my girlfriend on our lunch break at the courthouse in Arlington, Va. She was from Ecuador, we'd been together several years intended to get married but weren't sure how to cope with pressure of her student visa and so on. We'd just gotten back from a few months in Barcelona, graduated college eight months before...

There are no good "stories." For the vast number of couples who do this, it's all about waiting in lines, praying the INS paperwork makes it through, being harassed in airport customs and waiting years for everything to go through. We got married only briefly before September 11, so what should have been like a two year process stretched to five.

The most interesting story I have is about waiting in 20-degree weather at 5 a.m., trying to see someone at the INS office when it opened. The line forms early.

The most boring stories are the everyday squabbles couples have. We didn't work out - we seperated, the paperwork was still pending so we just waited until it went through to divorce. We'd been together something like seven years at that point, we just got caught in a bad timing situation, didn't know what to do, and so on.

That's life. She's a wonderful girl, and sometimes I wonder what it would have been like if it had worked out differently. But I hate our immigration system - it's hell for people who want to be here legitimately. It shouldn't be this hard.

Our country has strayed far, far from the ideals we claim to be based around. I love what this country stands for, on paper. But what it's become is something entirely different.

Re: INS marriages
 

I believe that more people legally immigrate to the USA than all other countries combine, despite the USA being the toughest country to immigrate to.

"The interesting thing is that almost everyone to whom I tell this story knows someone who married completely for INS reasons AND it is often the case that the couple stayed together after their five year yoke was up."

I think this has a lot to do with the man being the US citizen most of the time and the girls coming from cultures that are a lot more patriarchal than the West. After you are with a girl who worships you and waits on you hand and foot, its probably real tough to go back to a standard American nag.

Re: INS marriages
 

I don't have much to contribute but I was seriously considering it with a close friend from college who was a German citizen. We'd never been romantically involved (and still haven't been 5+ years later) but know each other very well. We figured the biggest hurdle would be the effects it would have on dating other people.

Re: INS marriages
 

people who marry for the sole purpose of gaining entrance to this country are scumbags in my book.

Re: INS marriages
 

My wife is not a US citizen and it was a huge hassle for us to get her a green card, and we even had a legitimate marriage. The actual interviews and things were not that bad but getting them scheduled was. It took a few years for everything. Her first green card was conditional - we had to re-apply after two years. After we re-applied, we got a letter saying "Please come to this INS office on Date X and such-and-such time. If you do not come to the office for your appointment it will be assumed that you are dropping your application." Of course, Date X had already passed by the time we got the letter. . .

Re: INS marriages
 

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I believe that more people legally immigrate to the USA than all other countries combine, despite the USA being the toughest country to immigrate to.

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I know there's a lot of bureaucratic paperwork and delay, and I know plenty of people who have had issues with "la migra" including H1Bs (work visa), immigrants from south of the border, adoptive parents bringing a child from overseas, "legit" (for "love", not "INS") marriages and so forth. Lots of bad experiences - but - do you have any sort of real evidence to back this claim up? Seems to me that a country that regularly offers amnesty to illegal immigrants cannot possibly be the most difficult country to immigrate to, nor can it be the most difficult when we take in more immigrants than pretty much anyone else.

Re: INS marriages
 

"do you have any sort of real evidence to back this claim up?"

No, and I should have included more of a disclaimer than "I believe". The information came unsolicited from the mouth of an Immigration attorney specializing in Visas to the USA. I found it interesting and wanted to add it to the discussion, but obviously should have included the source in my post. Thanks.

Re: INS marriages
 

[ QUOTE ]
people who marry for the sole purpose of gaining entrance to this country are scumbags in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

YEAH! KEEP EVERYONE OUT!

Re: INS marriages
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
people who marry for the sole purpose of gaining entrance to this country are scumbags in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

YEAH! KEEP EVERYONE OUT!

[/ QUOTE ]

Its pretty lol that you say this to bytor. Less trolilng in EDGD please.

Re: INS marriages
 

I personal find it amusing (in a bad way) when people drop one liner’s like, “keep em all out.” The Devil’s forum is by far and away the best on 2+2 where people post thoughtful concepts, ideas, comments question .etc I hope we can keep it that way.

In the context of INS marriages occurring with women and men already in the United States I think it’s tough because I find it really hard to blame them for wanting to stay in the US. It’s too bad it didn’t work out for Elsapo but how can we fault this girl for waiting around even after they had split to stay in the US. We have a country with a bunch of shortcomings but it’s still pretty goddamn great.

Re: INS marriages
 

[ QUOTE ]
"The interesting thing is that almost everyone to whom I tell this story knows someone who married completely for INS reasons AND it is often the case that the couple stayed together after their five year yoke was up."

I think this has a lot to do with the man being the US citizen most of the time and the girls coming from cultures that are a lot more patriarchal than the West. After you are with a girl who worships you and waits on you hand and foot, its probably real tough to go back to a standard American nag.

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Excellent point, and the 'waiting on hand and foot' could be exacerbated by the fact that the man and/or woman might perceive some special debt w/r/t the INS marriage.

I have an American friend who married a beautiful, intelligent, Japanese girl who is also the heir to a huge fortune (her father OWNS the Japanese equivalent of Dorritos). They married legitemately and he had to go to Japan to be installed as a supervisor in her father's company (though he speaks no Japanese and has no skills). She has an MBA from an American university, will become CEO of her father's company when he dies. Despite this, she waits on him hand and foot when she comes back from a hard days work and seems quite happy to do it.

Sigh. Japanese girls.

Re: INS marriages
 

I'd marry someone so they could get a green card if they paid me. What the hell, right?

Maybe I should make a post on Craigslist for this. I'd probably get some replies.

Re: INS marriages
 

[ QUOTE ]
"do you have any sort of real evidence to back this claim up?"

No, and I should have included more of a disclaimer than "I believe". The information came unsolicited from the mouth of an Immigration attorney specializing in Visas to the USA. I found it interesting and wanted to add it to the discussion, but obviously should have included the source in my post. Thanks.

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It's simply not true. There are plenty of countries where it is almost impossible to immigrate. Norway is one example I know, but there are many others I'm sure.

Other than the stupid cap on H1B's and the stupid lotto, dealing with legitimate work visas is relatively easy. It is true that getting a green card & so in is a pain, but that's just beaurocracy, and it's also sort of intentionally a pain to make sure you're serious.

Re: INS marriages
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd marry someone so they could get a green card if they paid me. What the hell, right?

Maybe I should make a post on Craigslist for this. I'd probably get some replies.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't this illegal? im pretty sure it is but it doesn't stop people. I overheard some girl in my college campus talking on the cell about her friend doing this. So I guess people see this as nothing wrong even though it is illegal to the point they will chat about it in the open.

Re: INS marriages
 

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people who marry for the sole purpose of gaining entrance to this country are scumbags in my book.

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Do you actually have a better reason for this than 'because it makes it more difficult for people who really love each other, like me and my wife'? I mean I see where you're coming from, but I find that argument incredibly selfish and shortsighted. How can you blame somebody for taking that option?

Why does your wife deserve to be in the US more than someone who isn't in love with a US citizen? Is there a divine law that says you have to be in love to be married? (don't be a smartass and say 'yes')

I'm not happy with the way the concept of 'citizenship' works in general. I could also point out that most people in the US are descendants of immigrants from the relatively recent past. I also seem to recall that you're Mexican, so in your case we're probably talking the last century.

Who are you (or anyone) to decide who deserves to be a citizen/have a green card? If your answer is 'well it's illegal to do xyz', why do you so vehemently believe that law is just?

Re: INS marriages
 

Anyone here have an "INS marriage" or know someone who does that actually worked out well? e.g. 2 people who had not been dating, but decided to tie the knot for citizenship purposes?

I'm Canadian and have a US g/f who i've been dating for around a year. I'm nowhere close to marriage, but i'm now starting to have work visa issues, and i get so frustrated when i think how many hoops i have to jump thru just so they'll let me work here, pay taxes, and contribute positively to your economy. I'm not ready to do something as crazy as an INS marriage, but...well, let's just call me an interested observer at this point. I want to know just how 'streamlined' a process it is for someone from a 1st-world country who's been in the US for 10 years attending top schools; or does all of that not matter, and i'll be just as scrutinized as the cattle-herder from Uruguay who marries a poor American girl he's been "dating" for 2 weeks?

Re: INS marriages
 

I've seen and heard of similar efforts in people trying to get into Australia.

While I'm obviously unfamiliar with the US experience, the Australian detection method seems exceptionally good - requiring things like wedding photos, evience of joint financial arrangeents, and other stuff that every married couple has, but very few others have. This applies to all applying couples. It's not simply a matter of claiming marriage - but rather, proving it to a reasonable immigration official.

I've heard claims similar to TeddyFBI's - that people from different nationalities are treated differently, but I've never actually seen any evidence of this genuinely happening.

(also, whoever said that the US has the toughest immigration policy in the world is simply talking crap - it is one of the most accepting of migrants. it is really only the anglo-western nations (UK, USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. and europe that accept migrants in any significant size, besides obviously disaster refugee movements.)

Re: INS marriages
 

teddy - Not sure. but my suspicion is that it will be roughly almost as much of a PITA for you.
This stuff definitely ain't easy and especially so since the 9/11 attacks.

My GF knows a couple who got married 25 yrs ago or something who weren't romantically involved at the time. They are still married and that was not part of the orgiinal plan but evidently all they do is yell at each other.

This isn't exactly uncommon for some lousier marriages though so I'm not sure if this technically qualifies as having 'worked out well' or not.

Re: INS marriages
 

"(also, whoever said that the US has the toughest immigration policy in the world is simply talking crap - it is one of the most accepting of migrants. it is really only the anglo-western nations (UK, USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. and europe that accept migrants in any significant size, besides obviously disaster refugee movements.) "

I think you guys who are doubting this are confusing visas with green cards/permanent residency.

Re: INS marriages
 

exactly, it's easy to get a visa for canada/western europe/australia, but almost impossible to get legal residency. it's harder to get a visa for the usa, but much easier to get legal residency (a green card).

Re: INS marriages
 

If you're seriously doubting that the US has one of the largest migration programmes in the world, both in per capita and absolute levels, use google or visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration

Re: INS marriages
 

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exactly, it's easy to get a visa for canada/western europe/australia, but almost impossible to get legal residency. it's harder to get a visa for the usa, but much easier to get legal residency (a green card).

[/ QUOTE ]


this is simply not true.


144,000 people are expected to have migrated to Australia in 2006/07 financial year. This represents just under 0.7% of the entire population (21million pop)

1,266,264 migrants obtained permanent residency in the US during the 2006 calendar year. This represents just under 0.4% of the entire population (300million pop)

(those stats were courtesy of wikipedia)


according to the CIA world factbook, here are the net migration rates:

Australia 3.78 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Canadia 5.79 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
UK 2.17 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
USA 3.05 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)


By contrast:
Bolivia -1.18 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Japan 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Malaysia 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population
Saudi Arabia -5.95 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)

Re: INS marriages
 

Teddy, my parents are friends with a couple who did this maybe 20 years ago. They're still married and have a biracial son. I've met them so I can attest they exist [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: INS marriages
 

I think these stats are incomplete without knowing the number of people who would like to apply for a visa or residency. To determine how difficult it is to gain permanent residency somewhere, you can't measure it against how many people live there (per capita). That's just silly. You have to measure it against how many people would like to have residency. The number who actually apply PLUS the number who don't apply because they know they won't be approved.

Re: INS marriages
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
exactly, it's easy to get a visa for canada/western europe/australia, but almost impossible to get legal residency. it's harder to get a visa for the usa, but much easier to get legal residency (a green card).

[/ QUOTE ]


this is simply not true.


144,000 people are expected to have migrated to Australia in 2006/07 financial year. This represents just under 0.7% of the entire population (21million pop)

1,266,264 migrants obtained permanent residency in the US during the 2006 calendar year. This represents just under 0.4% of the entire population (300million pop)

(those stats were courtesy of wikipedia)


according to the CIA world factbook, here are the net migration rates:

Australia 3.78 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Canadia 5.79 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
UK 2.17 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
USA 3.05 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)


By contrast:
Bolivia -1.18 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Japan 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Malaysia 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population
Saudi Arabia -5.95 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.)

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I don't see how the number of immigrants vs. emigrants of a specific country has anything to do with the difficulty of immigrating.

Re: INS marriages
 

since this is supposed to be a thread about marriage to migrate, I'm not going to respond further and further hijack the thread, but if someone were to start a thread on it, i'd participate.

Re: INS marriages
 

This from the friend I originally referenced in this post who married for INS reasons, after I refered him to this thread in an email:

"...Ironically, [deleted] and I are currently separated and a divorce is imminent."

He also had a bit to say about marriage, be it foreign or domestic. Cliff Notes: Don't do it.

Re: INS marriages
 

[ QUOTE ]
I want to know just how 'streamlined' a process it is for someone from a 1st-world country who's been in the US for 10 years attending top schools; or does all of that not matter, and i'll be just as scrutinized as the cattle-herder from Uruguay who marries a poor American girl he's been "dating" for 2 weeks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know 4 eastern european girls who all did this in Tahoe. The going rate seemed to be 5-10k. They weren't really scrutinized at all and the whole thing was pretty automatic. It was very transparent too as the marriages were obviously all happening as their visas were expiring. The only potential problem is if your spouse ends up wanting to get out of it / pissed at you or whatever before the time is up.

Re: INS marriages
 

I know 2 girls who married for green cards. One married a friend/ex-boyfriend, the other married her then-boyfriend. Both got their green cards but experienced serious hardship along the way. Girl #1's husband "borrowed" a lot of money from her without her permission (they were advised to join their bank accounts to make the marriage more believable). He eventually paid her back but it destroyed their friendship. Girl #2's relationship disintegrated when she realized that being married, even only technically, brought out all these intense feelings of commitment that her boyfriend/husband was totally unprepared for. Then when the relationship fell apart (they stayed technically married for the sake of her green card), her marital status left her in limbo with respect to meeting and dating other guys at an age (30+) when she can't afford to wait around.

Good times.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: INS marriages
 

Come on at least tell us if it's someone well known.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: INS marriages
 

I've spent alot of time in Syria, and marrying into the US/Western Europe is like the Syrian dream, for males and females alike. I certainly don't blame Syrians for pursuing this path, for alot of them, particularily the women its the only way out.

An interesting dynamic i've noticed, in the serious legitimate relationships between Americans and Syrians the whole marriage/greencard thing hangs over the couple like a bogeyman. The Syrian always feels paranoid that their partner/friends suspect the true motivations of the relationship. The American always has a haunting suspicion along the same lines. Goes with the territory is suppose.