A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

Good game at Ceasers. A couple of live ones getting wasted and throwing money away, a few other nits, one decent, but nitty regular (NR) $2,300 and some kid who plays on the interwebs who didn't respond knowingly to my 'sup bro?' (NSB) $1,500. He seems to be a decent hand reader and has been pretty aggressive.

I'm probably seen as fairly aggressive and solid. I've been straddling for the last ten or more orbits, and am winning solidly, mostly without showdown, but I have shown a few big hands down. I've never been picked off on a big bluff. I cover.

NR opens in MP to $40.. NSB calls in CO. I call OTB with 67[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

3 to the K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flop $130
NR bets $80. NSB raises to $250. I call.

Standard?

If you don't like it, how deep would you want to be before you did?

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

heh, I dunno if I'd call it standard, but I think its justified. between hopeful implied odds on teh gooterball, rr flush draw.

do you have a plan if he checks to you on the turn? it really sucks if the kid was running a move and we don't take advantage of an oppertunity to take him off his hand. incorrectly thinking we have implied odds.

also, I think the nit will slowdown with AA and AK, but the betting is still open to him so thats something to keep in mind, making this slightly worse.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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do you have a plan if he checks to you on the turn?

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I'm going to bet/fold like half pot.

River depends on how scared of my hand I think he is.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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ncorrectly thinking we have implied odds.

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I would have made this call even if he only had like $1500. I guess that would have made the hand more interesting.

EDIT: Modified stack sizes in OP for discussion

In the actual hand, NSP has $3K behind.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

tbh, this looks like the beginning of an FPS hand

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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tbh, this looks like the beginning of an FPS hand

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heh thats exactly what I was thinking, then I started to like it, also,

would you show your hand if you won the pot on the turn?

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

Obviously you can't just play this hand for implieds. Quite a few things have to be just right in order for this to be even close to profitable. He has to not have a big hand too often when he raises this flop (a lot of nits will always have a big hand). He has to put you on a set or something similar often with your overcall. He has to check/fold Kx (if he has this) on the turn (again I wouldn't bank on it).

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

Is nr cbetting this spot alot?

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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Is nr cbetting this spot alot?

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He's been cbetting a decent amount, and this is as cbet friendly a flop as you can get.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

wtf this is an easy play, he checks you bet 2/3 pot on the turn, he smugly mucks KQ face up. this is so effing standard it's unreal, come on.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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wtf this is an easy play, he checks you bet 2/3 pot on the turn, he smugly mucks KQ face up. this is so effing standard it's unreal, come on.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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wtf this is an easy play, he checks you bet 2/3 pot on the turn, he smugly mucks KQ face up. this is so effing standard it's unreal, come on.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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anything else is a pretty glaring leak imo

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

the games are good

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

I think its cool so long as there are some stacks behind, both for your implied odds and for your FE.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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I think its cool so long as there are some stacks behind, both for your implied odds and for your FE.

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How deep do you think I need to be?

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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wtf this is an easy play, he checks you bet 2/3 pot on the turn, he smugly mucks KQ face up. this is so effing standard it's unreal, come on.

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Maybe I didn't follow Big Jim's read of the guy raising the flop. But I don't understand how this is "so effing standard." And i'm not saying I don't like it either...but there's a lot at play here - including you concern of the continuation bettor, and what types of hands the flop-raiser raises with. I mean, if he's good, why would he be raising KQ on the flop?

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

plz dont tell ppl bout this

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

At first I thought this was insane but the more I thought about it the more I liked it assuming a few factors hold: 1) you haven't made a play like this all session, 2) NSB is not a good player and will raise with a mediocre hand like top pair (and not just a set here) yet can read hands well enough to know that your cold call is a really effing strong hand since this board has no draws, 3) NR is smart or tight enough to fold AA or AK here having invested so little and most likely being way behind after a raise and a cold call, 4) the plan is to fold if bet into on the turn after not hitting and betting 3/5 pot if NR folds and you are heads up after NSB checks to your obvious set

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

Why didn't you just jam flop? Theres no draw except our premium gutter and you obv arent jamming KQ so you win the pot unless someone has something, which you have no reason to believe after just a bet and a raise. Also ceasers has even more droolbags than caesers, good game selection [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

edit: nevermind, I'm bad, clearly you want them to put more money in on the turn so you can take that too. Forgive me, I'm rusty.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

What if he has 2k total to start and he calls and turn is 2.3.4.q.j of spade big jim. U still betting 100% of time when/if he chks.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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U still betting 100% of time when/if he chks.

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I *might* check a board pair.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

I changed the $total in my post to better express the point I am trying to c your view on.1500 is too swallow and 3k is to much

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

This play is wayyy cheaper, I think it looks sick strong, I think the guy is bluffing himself here decent amount, since nitty guy would definitely fold anything less than AK here, and MIGHT fold AK/AA and if I'm wrong and he is strong, I have a chance to get a good amount of money in good.

In the actual hand, we were $3k deep, remember, so implieds are pretty sick, and I have a runner draw too, which I'll often be priced in for on the turn.

Also, if he does check/call the turn, I have a chance to try to make him fold a set of fours! LOL

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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spade

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I missed this the first time around the first time around.

Yeah, it would be sick if I bet and priced myself in (or barely out), when he check/raises. With $3k behind, I think I can bet small and he'll price me in even if he c/rs, so it's not a disaster, and with less, I might just shove, but yeah, with $2k taking a freebie sometimes is probably a good idea.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

lol I somehow managed to edit your post instead of replying, drooling all over myself over here. I fixed it though, and anyhow:

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This play is wayyy cheaper

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In the actual hand, we were $3k deep

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Are you poor or something? It was cheaper? A moped is cheaper than a Bentley, but theres a reason CTS opted for the latter. Style points bro, you need to work on your mentality, because that isn't a winner's one.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

lol

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

if you spike a spade on the turn, i might check behind. I think the risk of not seeing the river with a now much stronger draw is too great to bet (well, unless you shove) and you probably dont lose much FE if you throw out some reverse tells and make your turn check look tricky/trappy. Plus nobody will ever ever ever put you on that flush when you get there, and its pretty much an instastack against any real hand.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

dj, i highly doubt if the guy has 88 and the board comes Js, 2s we get in another 270bb on river...i wouldn't so readily assume we instastack if we make a backdoor flush. i also think we definitely lose a ton of fold equity vs. KQ type stuff if we check it back. w/ 3k effective stacks i think turn is definitely a bet and call a c/r on a spade...w/ 1500 i check back turn though.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

if you make this play you absolutely cannot check the turn no matter what it is. your fold equity versus kings goes from 90% to like 20% if you do that, and that is a disaster.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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wtf this is an easy play, he checks you bet 2/3 pot on the turn, he smugly mucks KQ face up. this is so effing standard it's unreal, come on.

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Seems unlikely that he is raising KQ on the flop. A mid pocket pair is more likely to raise.

It looks like either a monster or air, most probably weighted towards a weaker hand from this player. The call is a pretty imaginative way to re-steal. Obviously fire any turn when checked to.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

jim, frankly i think its perfect. i've never done this. but the situation is perfectly justified. assuming you cover i think the stacks are perfect. i think you have to bet every single turn except 5,K for the same reason that Vanessa stated.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

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Seems unlikely that he is raising KQ on the flop. A mid pocket pair is more likely to raise.

It looks like either a monster or air

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i dont think this is true in a live 5/10 game. even relatively decent people put in all sorts of weird live raises here. since he isn't 2p2, im not willing to take kq/ak out of his range.

Re: A Call Bluff : $5/$10 Ceasers Palace
 

Yeah. I really, really like this.

Re: sults
 

NR folded pretty quickly.

NSB started looking realll reallll confident in his hand after I called. He looked at my stack and I could practically hear him salivating.

The turn came with some blank (J maybe?).

NSB thought for a few seconds and led for like $600, and I instamuck.

I tell him I'll give him $100 if he can show me a card that isn't an 8. He mucks.

Re: sults
 

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I tell him I'll give him $100 if he can show me a card that isn't an 8. He mucks.

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ballin'