Live poker is so different
 

Decided to play some live poker yesterday. First hand at the table, 5-handed and everyone is a regular so I know them all somewhat. 2/5 NL, stacks 1000 all around.

I raise red 33 to 20 UTG, CO (tight regular makes it 75 to go). BN (fairly TAG but with a few tricks regular) hems and haws and then finally cold-calls. Blinds fold and I call. Yes, this is literally the first hand at the table (wtf).

Flop comes Kd Th 3c. (230 pot)

I check, CO checks, BN bets 120, I call, CO folds.

Turn is 9d. (450 pot)

I bet 250, BN instashoves for about 600 more, I instacall.

Yes or no on this whole hand?

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Everything looks fine to me. Pretty standard. Let me guess: He showed you QJ?

Re: Live poker is so different
 

No he didnt.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Looks good / standard

Re: Live poker is so different
 

This is fine, as is leading the flop. This is better than c/r flop imo.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is fine, as is leading the flop. This is better than c/r flop imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] c/c the flop and donking the turn. Most players wont give you much credit with this line.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

check-fold flop, he has TTT, SO obvious..












ok I was being sarcastic you played it fine, I can't imagine hes tight enough to only push KK or TT there.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

in my experience live players are A LOT worse than online.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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in my experience live players are A LOT worse than online.

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They are worse in a different way, for instance there's a whole group of players that only raise AA (and sometimes) KK preflop making it easy to play perfectly against them.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Seems like an easy call. Although if he is really tight he may only make this move with higher sets. There's no way he is reraising QJ pre.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

you're smoked here always.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Sounds like a bigger set or AA but there's no chance I'm folding here. AA, KK, or TT are the only three hands I can put on a TAG who cold called a raise and tight reraise.

- C -

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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you're smoked here always.

[/ QUOTE ]am i really, or are you just making fun of me. no AA/AK?

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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am i really, or are you just making fun of me. no AA/AK?

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eh, i was being serious. i mean if he's not a total retard he's either bluffing - and giving you pretty good odds or he has three kings or three jacks. i guess the fact that he's unafraid when qj got there means it may be bluff more often than i would think(?) but i just don't see this as a value shove with worse pretty much ever - can't look back at op but if he could have an ak that picked up a fd i guess - but not that likely.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

meh. yea. see, online it's a no-brainer call. but i was thinking that live maybe it's a fold... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Live poker is so different
 

obviously this depends a lot on whether AA and AK are hands he'd coldcall with in that spot, and if he doesn't suck, they seem unlikely. which means you don't really beat anything when he shoves the turn.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Does everyone really like the preflop call with a very small pair 200 blinds deep? I know it looks like you are getting "good odds" but hardly ever against a decent opponent are you looking at a winner when the money goes in with 200bb and you have bottom set.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

if this is true then go allin without a set

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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meh. yea. see, online it's a no-brainer call. but i was thinking that live maybe it's a fold... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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nah, I really like your line and use it from time to time, your beat more often than most people expect, but I don't think your beat often enough to fold.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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Yes or no on this whole hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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Does everyone really like the preflop call with a very small pair 200 blinds deep? I know it looks like you are getting "good odds" but hardly ever against a decent opponent are you looking at a winner when the money goes in with 200bb and you have bottom set.

[/ QUOTE ]

L. O. L.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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This is fine, as is leading the flop. This is better than c/r flop imo.

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but c/r raise if btn calls

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Ok, so apparently my post was horrible. TWP, can you tell us the results of the hand?

And to the naysayers of my post, can you show me some hand histories of deepstack poker (I regularly play 200-500BB deep) where you get the money in with bottom set against a decent player (ie not some tourist donkey) and your hand is good? Please sit at my table all day long.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Why would you call online but consider to fold live?
Live players will felt TPTK types of hands much more frequently.
YES on the whole hand.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

Hmm seems very standard. Whats other options ? Folding [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I guess the problem is that he shoves.. maybe live donks are supposed to call with a pair there ?
So he probably didnt call preflop with KT. Maybe QJs ? Maybe T9s ? Maybe AA or KK ?. I guess if you think he would only call with a pair its very reasonable problem now.
Still there are many 2pair hands which you beat so I guses folding is bad.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does everyone really like the preflop call with a very small pair 200 blinds deep? I know it looks like you are getting "good odds" but hardly ever against a decent opponent are you looking at a winner when the money goes in with 200bb and you have bottom set.

[/ QUOTE ]

L. O. L.

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this is actually a reasonable concern. fortunately, it probably isnt the case live.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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you're smoked here always.

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Re: Live poker is so different
 

ya, ure praying for AA, hard

Re: Live poker is so different
 

live poker is VERY different. If this is the type that will show up with 2pair here, you should know it already. I would be ready to get stacks in , but not with the line you took. I like a flop donk much better. If villain has any Kx/AA it should be easy to get stacks in the middle, and you might even get some calls out of nut gutshots (esp backdoors etc).
Also i dont like the call preflop. I know pot odds etc, but you are OOP deep, with a hand that misses most flops. When you do flop sets, it is not so easy to extract value.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

it was easy this time. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

TTT

Re: Live poker is so different
 

told you so

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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Also i dont like the call preflop. I know pot odds etc, but you are OOP deep, with a hand that misses most flops. When you do flop sets, it is not so easy to extract value.

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are you serious? this is EXACTLY the type of hand to be calling w/ when you are deep. And it wasn't even a big 3-bet...coupled w/ another caller, you can't throw away this hand.

It may have been unlucky here to get shown a higher set, but you can't assume that everytime someone throws you heat that they have you over-setted. Plenty of live-donks overplay AA or other overpairs in this type of spot.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

complete cooler w/ no read, hell even with...

I like everything btw.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

I think it's extremely likely for the coldcaller to have a (pretty big) pocket pair here and the reraiser should have one much of the time as well. Against two higher pocket pairs you are going to get oversetted pretty often.

Board: 3s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 65.867% 65.70% 00.16% 10572444 26451.00 { 33 }
Hand 1: 19.068% 18.90% 00.16% 3041793 26451.00 { AA }
Hand 2: 15.066% 14.90% 00.16% 2397870 26451.00 { TT }

Re: Live poker is so different
 

wow that is [censored] stunning to me.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

the thing some of you don't seem to get is that you don't have to lose your stack if you get oversetted in a live game 200bb deep. this was a fold - a reasonably easy one.

so you math dudes need to merge that equity crap with [(avg dollars lost by guys who are unable to fold sets live 200bb)+(avg dollars lost by guys who are able to fold sets live 200bb *.3)]/2 or something to get a true reflection of how the forum would fare.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

yea i was serious small pairs OOP are trash

Re: Live poker is so different
 

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yea i was serious small pairs OOP are trash

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i disagree completely.

we are 200bb's deep, not 600-1000.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

agree. i thought these were actually perfect stacks to call with, especially 3-handed.

Re: Live poker is so different
 

i've played hundred of hours, maybe even thousands of hours live, and i can't believe i'd do anything but insta get it in and if i was friendly enough with the old guy on my right, hi five him for sure