[NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

My question is simple. What can he have here? my flop raise was very weak but I had a bad feeling about this hand. Would you fold in this spot?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $81.80
BB: $50.00
Hero (UTG): $50.00
CO: $50.50
BTN: $51.85

Reads: <font color="blue">Villain had previously made a semi-bluff with bottom pair on another player for half his stack wich didnt work out. I had won 3 pots without showdown vs him. 37/23/4.8(115)</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Jc.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Jd.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $1.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.25) http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/4s.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Th.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/8c.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $4.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $10.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $22.00</font>, Hero calls $6.00

Turn: ($48.25) http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/4s.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Th.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/8c.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Kc.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $20.00</font>, Hero folds
Uncalled bet of $20.00 returned to BTN

Pot Size: $48.25 ($2.40 Rake)

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

This guy is playing a lot of pots and seems pretty aggressive. I don't think he has a higher pair than you as most players will just reraise this pf. After he raises your initial flop bet i think you need to raise more than just another $6. When he 4-bets you for only $6 more I feel like he has a very strong hand. Is this the type of player that would stack off with TPTK on the flop? As played, I'd fold the turn.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

please don't 3bet this flop.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
please don't 3bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you play the turn if you just call the flop?

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
please don't 3bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you not re-raise him on that flop? I have some trouble playing overpairs in this spot. I can only beat 99 and AK or smth frisky... And yeah i guess i should've 4bet'd him more than just the minimum [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
please don't 3bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


;ofidsfhgkdfjgoiJDFgoijDFOIgjOIDFHgo;iDHFgoihjFGoi hjfd;oigh

For [censored] sake will people stop posting these 5 word replies that are totally [censored] useless.

I have no idea what to do in hero's spot and am thinking about the flop 3b. If you have some specific reason to help the rest of understand why it's bad please share it. For [censored] sake.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

His play screams a ten to me.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

im in a pokerstove mood today!

my range for him after hes called your pfr and raised your cbet would be:

TT-44,ATs,A8s,A4s,KTs,K8s,K4s,QTs+,Q8s,J9s+,
Jh8h,Js8s,T7s+,97s+,8h7h,8s7s,ATo,A8o,A4o,KTo+,
K8o,QTo+,J9o+,T9o

you're 75% favourite over this range so your options are either call with the intention of getting it in later, or 3bet.

if you 3bet i'd say his calling range is:

TT,88,44,ATs,KTs,QTs,JTs,Js9s,T8s+,97s,ATo,KTo,QTo ,J9o+,T9o

you're still 60% favourite so i think 3bet is good. even if he only calls with: TT,88,44,ATs,KTs,T8s,ATo,KTo you're well ahead.

your 3bet needs to be larger, i prolly just push, but you could make it $30 or so and shove any turn... he might be the type of player thats more inclined to call smaller raises without realising hes commited to the hand.

there are so many cards on the turn that you dont wanna see; any A, K, Q, T, or a 7 is gonna oput you in a really crappy spot since he seems capable of firing again with stuff you beat... 3betting the flop doesnt turn your hand into a bluff vs this guy because he'll call with worse. against a decent tag then 3betting here is a bluff, against this guy its for value.

EDIT: my ranges dont include any air hands that hes raising with which im sure he does every so often. which is more of a reason to call and c/r turn, i just htink JJ is too vulnerable to do this with here. i dont hate it, just prefer a 3bet!

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

thx danny. my mistake was probably the small 3bet on the flop.

in retrospective i think i prefer the shove to his re-raise on the flop...But then again, i would ouly get called by a better hand i guess.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

Hm ... tough one but I disagree with the flop rr (even with a larger one). I just can't see villain calling with many hands we beat except for maybe AT and after the rr you're pretty much commited ...
Imo we should call his flop raise and c/r ai on a blank turn (no A,K,Q,T). That way we still might stack him with AT but also get additional value from bluffs / weaker hands that might fold to the flop rr.
The drawback of this play is that villain gets a free draw at beating us when he holds trash but that disadvantage is somewhat compensated by the fact that we save money when the scare card hits and we would have lost our stack in case he has AT/KT and the A/K hits on the turn.

What to do if a scare card hits? Hm ... I guess we should check and reevaluate based on board texture + villains action.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

folding hte turn is really silly after the way the flop played out.

the reason you dont want to 3-bet the flop is because its so dry that you will fold out Tx and only get called/raised by sets.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

ye makes sense tubasteve [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] thx for the comments guys!

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

guess im a bit wrong in thinking he'll call a 3bet with a T then lol... in that case stack a donk sounds good!

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

You need to either fold this on the flop or call him down. I dont understand what your thinking ifolding to a K on the turn, what exactly does that change? I mean AT is a likely holding, K is just a blank.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need to either fold this on the flop or call him down. I dont understand what your thinking ifolding to a K on the turn, what exactly does that change? I mean AT is a likely holding, K is just a blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say we have to fold when a K hits I said: "I guess we should check and reevaluate based on board texture + villains action. "
I'm more likely to call down / c/r on a Q/K turn than on an A.
My line was calling the flop and then reevaluating the turn when a A/K/Q/T hits - this doesn't always mean fold - but when villain pushes the rest of his stack into the 24$ pot after the K hit, I doubt that calling would be correct there.
Besides that we can't fully rule out KT imo, it's not too likely but neither is it impossible.

And for the river: do we really c/c there after c/c the turn? I mean will villain bet a weaker hand / bluff again after getting called twice? He needs to hold almost exactly AT for that or maybe I'm just wrong ...

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

Your OOP. You can not reevaluate based on his actions. A guy with his stats is going to fire any turn if you show weakness.

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

If you are gonna three bet for the love of allah don't min3bet. It looks like you crazy ass holes are playing limit

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

call flop fold turn

Re: [NL50]JJ on Thigh board. wud u fold here?
 

As played, good fold.

As for the correct play on the flop, I'm unsure. I don't like your tiny 3bet. A larger 3bet might be okay in this situation, though, since he is so aggressive postflop.