Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

OK, i'm sure this subject has been beat to death, but i'm pretty new to the forum, so bear w/me. I play HU S&G on stars, am always gold-plat. star each month, and make about 25k+ FPP because of this (can buy in to 1 or 2 of those 15k FPP STTs, making it kinda like rakeback, whatever, blah blah blah), but I guess my question is two parts: 1) What are the hourly rates at equivalent limits for stars HU S&Gs vs. FT HU S&Gs or FT HU cash, and as for FT's 27% rakeback, how does that factor in vs. Stars FPP program, etc. Just wondering if it's worth it to switch my site, and if the hourly rates / players ability is much different. Sorry if this is gibberish ;p, thanks for any help

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

bump... ? (am I allowed to do that), but seriously, can someone give some input here?

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

What's your hourly at PS? What level do you play?


What kind of bankroll do you have?

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

i prefer to play FTP hu cash, as far as making money goes.5/1 or 1/2. the games are fairly easy at that level. when i start to get on a 4-5 BI downswing at tournys on FTP. i just buy into a cash game against some short stacks. as a whole however i prefer the HU sng. ther players there are generaly better( even tho im playing small at stars still $6&$10 hu sng.)

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

[ QUOTE ]

play FTP hu cash [...] .5/1 or 1/2
[...]
HU sng [...] $6 &$10

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm dying to play HU cash. Still playing $10 sng's, but love to play .5/1 on ftp.

How's the skill level when you compare the $10 sng's with .5/1 hu cash games?

Should I take the risk and play .5/1 hu cash when my total br is ~$700? (I'm a winning player)

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

You need a lot more than 700. I have about 1500 I could devote to FTP right now at the most and I'm not even considering it. I play 110s too.

I'd imagine the skill level is > 10 but <110 at the 100NL HU cash games on FTP, as long as you don't sit with the better players.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

it really depends on who your sitting with. i belive myself to be an average player right now i have a 58% win rate at multiple levels of sngs on stars and on ftp.i have yet to have a losing session playing cash on FTp, but i have been playing some pretty bad players. i use sharkscope to give me an i dea of wht type of player im sitting with, even tho those are sng results, i think that you can get some decent info on a cash game player as to how well they play. that being said, with 700 bucks i would not take a shot at it, you will be on scared money. if you REALLY.want to play it, i would take maybe $150 and short buy against another short stack and see how it feels. but over all, i would say wait until you have like 15 buy ins that way if you take a 4-5 buy in swing you can get back to playin the sng and still have a decent roll for those stakes.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

I'd guess that any form of cash game is going to be more profitable than any form of SNG. The real question is what you enjoy. I personally really enjoy the SNG structure and have spent 2 yrs getting good at it so for me I'm not gonna mess with cash right now. If I wanna play cash, I'll go to Bay101 and do it live with the super fishies.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

SO RY, What would be a good roll to have to play that level of cash game in your eyes? im obv. not a BR nit, but i am trying to keep a guideline from players who have been more sucsessful than me.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

I miss california.....

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

I don't play HU cash but if you're really good I'd say 30 buyins. 50 seems about right for HU cash though.

I'm going to try to start with 30 buyins down the road when I decide to play HU cash and see how I do.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

Selector, if your BR is ~700 you should probably be playing > $10 HU S&Gs, and maybe at 20 and 30s you can see how comfortably you really feel playing HU.

playing HU Cash I think i'd say between 10-20 buy ins is about right at that lower level play, playing 100NL HU I think 1500 should be plenty, as you'll be sitting with alot of shorts there playing with their rolls lol, and probably the majority of players there will be losing players, but I don't do HU cash yet, stars guy, just my opinion

and to your question Ryan, I play anywhere from 22s - 55s on stars. Touched the 115s, but really would like to make 55s / 33s my home. So would prolly play .5 / 1 in HU cash im assuming?

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

10-20 is nowhere near enough imo.unless youre only playing people whose buyins end in cents. with impeccable game selection i think 25-30 would be as low as id go.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

I'm basing my 10-20 on a previous thread w/ TRNixon, read it, some interesting BR requirement stuff. I dunno how to link it, but i'll find the name and post it soon, it's in the HU section and from the last 2 days.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

I thought TRNixon's BR requirements were for HUSNG not HUcash. I could be wrong though.

I'd imagine 30 would be the minimum to start HU cash unless you have an easy way/no problem with devoting more money to it if you hit a bad swing early. I think the variance is about as bad as you're going to get.

As for which is more profitable, I would imagine a 58% + winner at the 55s is going to make more than playing HU cash. Even with 20/bb per 100, that's like, what, 20 bucks an hour on one table? Minus rake plus rakeback. Unless you're going to 2-3 table and can keep a good winrate up it's probably just as profitable if not more to play 55s.

Also the variance will be a heck of a lot less playing 55s, and you need less of a bankroll to play them than 100NL HU.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

fwiw 10ptbb @ .5/1 = 40/table/hour
cant comment on the 55s as my hourly at those has () around it.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

I thought 10 PTbb was equal to 20 bb per hour or something. I only play HUSNG, sorry for the ignorance.

If he can do 2 tables at 40 an hour I would definitely play 100NL HU over 55s.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

your numbers were right, its 20/100 but you get 200 hands an hour (im getting a little bit mroe actually) on tilt.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

Sorry, I totally underestimated the hands per hour for HU cash. My bad.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought TRNixon's BR requirements were for HUSNG not HUcash. I could be wrong though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. HUSNGs only. In freezout tournaments, variance goes down as the number of players decreases, and since the purpose of the extra buyins is to cover normal variance, BR requirements should drop as well. So, if common wisdom says you need 20-30 buyins to play STTs, you should be able to get by with less in HUSNGs. I'm thinking about writing a simulator for STTs just to test that theory though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In cash games though, common wisdom indicates that variance increases as the number of players decreases. So, if the popular recomendations for 9-10 person cash tables is 20 buyins, you'd probably need quite a bit more than that for HUcash, I would think.

But I've never played (and probably never will play) HU cash, and I'm not a frequent cash player period, so take that all with a grain of salt.

Come to think of it, though, I'm not sure why HU cash would be higher variance than a HUSNG, especially if you were careful not to have too much of your bankroll at risk at a time, and be willing to cash out of the table if you doubled up. Maybe somebody with a lot more cash experience could fill in some details here?

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

Yea, interesting point, where is the variance introduced in HU cash that isn't there at HU S&Gs?

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

with HU cash, i use it precisely to double up then leave. either that or take some short stakers roll. i havent booked a loosing session playing that way, as soon as i double up or get to about 180 or so(.5/1) then i bounce, and look for another table with a weak player. and at .5/1 there are far more weak players than strong or even mediocre. i think if you can beat the 55sng at either stars or FTP You should be able to Clean up at .5/1 HU easily, playing a psudo TAG game.

Re: Stars S&G vs. FT Cash
 

My humble 1st post and opinion in this forum is, that at .5/1 and 1/2 if one is selective (and it's not too hard to figure out who the regs/good and bad are) the variance drops way down. Using that criteria, 20-25 BI should work fine.

PS I have found 5 reg HUcash players on FT 100NL that actually have raise %s <10% and AFs <1.0. If you can't beat them...