WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 12.)
 

Owing to continued demand, again we have a central thread for questions, suggestions, complaints, and general discussion about WSEX.

Keeping everything in one thread helps everyone interested in WSEX to find full information, and those not interested know which thread not to read, so thank you for supporting the idea. The WSEX GM makes a point of reading this thread every day or two, whereas he doesn't have time to search for individual comment threads scattered about the forum.

For reference, the previous thread, #10 of 11, is here.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I've got a suggestion about cashouts that really bugs me.

When I cashout the money is not removed from my account to process, it stays there and is taken when you decide to do the cashout, which is about 2-3 days later sometimes.

I would LOVE it if you could remove the cashout $$$ when the request is made whilst the process is ongoing.

Thanks for wsex by the way, I love it!

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

Money is debited from your account the next business day as long as it is approved. (Rollover for sports bonus, verified ID) If you put the request in on a Friday after 8 AM, it won't be debited until Monday.

Fred

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

Also does wsex have a self exclusion option? Sometimes I would like a 2 or 3 day cooloff period. It would be good to enter the number of days to lock yourself out the account for.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

many times when trying to view a HH immediately following the hand, i get an error message, and i am unable to view the HH. annoying.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

Is it possible to have a faster way to reload back to the maximum buy-in? Currently when pressing the '$' it can take quite a while to appear, and even longer for the confirmation and the reload amount to be added to your stack. 2-3 hands can go by.

Also frustrating is I can't reload to the maximum if I try on the hand where the money was taken out. So if I'm on the small blind, I fold and then reload, it won't let me reload to the full buy in amount until the following hand.

I find the '2 free disconnections' a little disconcerting in ring games too. It appears that this means someone can intentionally disconnect instead of calling a large bet to have an 'all in' for the current amount in the pot occur. Or am I wrong?

I've also been disconnected during a hand, and 'sat out' as a result. I reconnect while the hand is still going but I don't seem to get a 'sit back in' button until the following hand is dealt.

Other than those issues, I like the site and hope more people play there.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I've been one of the biggest supporters of WPEX, and one of the most frequent players at the site. But with this change to 75% rakeback, I'm probably going to take most of my business to other sites. I'll keep some money on the site, because I have a feeling that what games there are going to be are going to be a bit softer, since you're about to have a mass exodus of 2+2ers from the site. I'd rather you get rid of aces never lose than decrease the rakeback.

You're giving money to affiliates? [censored]! Well, I guess I can't really complain, because 100% rakeback wasn't working. And it might actually be beneficial to the site, who knows. Thanks for the experiment in positive-sum poker, and I wish World Poker Exchange all the luck in the future.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

WSEX began the 100% rakeback program as a benefit to their sportsbook players and with the hopes that poker players would cross over and play at the WSEX sportsbook and casino. There was not enough cross-over and the costs of moving money have significantly increased since we started the program.

We still offer the highest unrestricted rakeback in the industry. Only now it is not costing us money every month. It also gives us room to bring in a couple of specialized marketing companies, if you know what I mean.

We really wanted it to work, but it just wasn't.

Fred Balfour
General Manager
WSEX.com

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

Yeah, I suppose I'm not really taking my "business" to other sites, since y'all were paying me to play at your site.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I'm VERY excited about you moving to 75% Rakeback. Of course, I'm not happy about it for the "less money back to you" reason. I'm happy about it because, if you handle the 25% you are keeping correctly, then traffic will increase and in the long run it'll mean more money in my pocket. 75% rakeback + Acesneverlose + constantly overlayed tournies + $5,000 added THREE TIMES A WEEK BABY!!!! = you are still going to be pumping plenty into the poker economy.

Just please don't screw this up. Again you are going to have an enormous opportunity to do it right. You, I'm sure you're aware, may not get another chance.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I'm definitely sad to see the 100% rakeback go, but I understand that you have to do what's best for your site. I'm excited about the inclusion of 3x/week 5k added tournies, but I do have a gripe about those: The blind structure in the first one was just ridiculous. You need to slow it down considerably to make it a skill game and not a turbo all-in fest. That's all I've got. I hope more people come to the site with your new advertising campaign.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

Here is what I was going to pm you but your box is full.

Hello, while I welcome the decrease in rakeback for increased advertising, do you think it is possible for a sliding scale for high rake players? Last week I paid 3900ish in rake, maybe at the 1500 level rb goes to 80% and at 3k it goes to 85% or something like that? I actively create games when I play as well as make sports bets to support the site. However, with the change in rake now playing in some of the tough 2 handed/3handed games will no longer really be worth the variance simply to create games. However I feel if something is done to keep the highest rake contributors (who would still contribute signifigantly more rake than others) game creation will still occur and it will motivate others to play more.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

WSEX GM: Will you consider lowering the pre-rakeback rake/fees so that they're comparable with other sites like FT/PS?

For example:
-Heads up NL cash rake should be capped at $0.50, not $1
-Change $5+1 MTT to $5+0.50, $100+10 SNG to $100+9, etc.

I play Heads up cash, and with the new system, the rake burden is not much different from Full Tilt with their rakeback and other promotions.

I do appreciate the addition of the $5k added events, and I hope you'll do some even bigger ones from time to time. I agree that it would be nice to have a better structure in these (deeper starting stacks).

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

How about you guys use the money to better your software? I can't be the only one who was driven away by the weird double holecards thing. Just make your software look and function more like every other poker site and i'm sure it will increase your playerbase.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

there are no double hole cards with mini view

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

Going from 100% to 75% RB is a little disappointing in the short term, but encouraging for the long-term low rake model. Better than WSEX saying, "well, 100% isn't cutting it, we're closing shop."

Use that 25% wisely and grow the site, WSEX.

FWIW the site has been getting 100% of my play for a couple months.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]
WSEX GM: Will you consider lowering the pre-rakeback rake/fees so that they're comparable with other sites like FT/PS?

For example:
-Heads up NL cash rake should be capped at $0.50, not $1
-Change $5+1 MTT to $5+0.50, $100+10 SNG to $100+9, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. 75% RB is great, but with no HUD, higher rake, and tougher competition there are other sites out there that will be more profitable. Any chance that you will be allowing HUD anytime soon?

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I cashed out all my money this morning. 75% is good, but i can't stand the software, and the games are tough. 100% was my only reason for being there.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

After decreasing ur rakeback I feel you guys owe something more to the players now and u finally will need to take measures to fix the long term problems of the site people have complained about forever.

ie bots (which are definitely present), and the issue of people not being able to use PT/HUD which really only means the honest players are at a disadvantage while other players are being shady and getting an advantage (its a fact people datamine these games). I think ur best off now just opening up poker tracker on ur site to the masses to make sure noone is given an unfair advantage.

Ive played wsex for months now and raked approaching 50k in that time and stuck with the site despite obvious short comings solely due to 100% rb and never complained about the above or software becuz you as the GM owed the players nothing. now u kinda do.

aces never lose also seems like its set up oddly, u should be running it when people are less likely to play instead of during prime times like weekends and nights when people are there anyways no?

hopefully u guys can do something about the player pool and marketing will attract more players, otherwise the site hsa just become instantly less profitable for everyone. I personally am only going to leave a couple thousand just to see what happens while I wait for my cashout so I can move the rest of my BR somewhere else becuz wsex was already perhaps only a second best option due to the toughness of the games and the high rake structure made it super hard for almost anyone to beat the low limit games pre-rakeback and now for sure it is not the best option for many of us grinders since our profits are being cut by atleast 25% since most of us were break even or slight losers before rb.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]

-Change $100+10 SNG to $100+9, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the blind structure is so fast on these SNGs that a turbo buyin scheme would probably be more appropriate: $33+3, $55+5, $110+9, etc.

As a general software request for SNGs, it would be nice if the blinds increased after 10 minutes instead of 10 hands. As it is, the later portions are more like "ultra-turbo". For example, let's say you're down to heads-up at 100-200, with the blinds increasing every 10 hands. You'll likely be at 400-800 within 5 minutes, if it isn't already over by then.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

jstill -- I think that the ANL promotion is timed quite well. Monday and Tuesday are fairly high-traffic days, because ofrakeback being distributed Sunday night.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]
But with this change to 75% rakeback...

[/ QUOTE ]
Where is there information or an announcement of this? Is there some 'news' page or something?

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But with this change to 75% rakeback...

[/ QUOTE ]
Where is there information or an announcement of this? Is there some 'news' page or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

www.wsex.com

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I just started playing here again last week and this news is semi disappointing. However, if there is an affiliate program in the works that could possibly increase traffic then this could be a good move. 75% with the current player pool isn't going to cut it, so I hope there will be a big push for new sign-ups.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I understand the need to cut the rakeback, and just hope some of this gets funnelled back to a marketing campaign. Ironically, WPEX was a positive sum site (with aces never lose and freerolls) and still was losing market share.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

where is info that they are going to give money to affiliates?

i honestly love this idea

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I hope this works...traffic has been lower since this change happened. Can't even keep 2 3/6 tables going after midnight (CST).

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hope this works...traffic has been lower since this change happened. Can't even keep 2 3/6 tables going after midnight (CST).

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a little early to make judgements based on this already. You have to expect there will be some who will instantly leave. Whatever it is that WPEX will do with the 25% will obviously not have happened by now. It'll take weeks or months (after they implement their plan) for us to know what the future may hold. As I, and others, have said, let's just hope they don't screw up what could very likely be their last chance. They've been lucky enough to be the most talked about small site up till now...there's not a lot of time for them to prove this is a good decision.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I understand that it will take some time to get things moving. Problem is that when potentially new players log on at midnight and see 400 people playing and very few tables, it's not going to attract them. I love WPX, I just hope they thought this through is all.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

I think this is a bad idea. 10% for ads I could live with but 25% is just too much. My win rate was negative before this and I play there alot. I think I'm going to stop playing there. If enough people do as I do then there will not be enough players to get games going. This could be the end of the room if this plan doesn't increase traffic.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]
where is info that they are going to give money to affiliates?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

If I read the GM's post correctly, I guess they need most of the 25% to cover the costs of transaction fees, overlays and running the server.

Rewarding Long Time Players idea
 

I made a post earlier in the thread allowing for increased rakeback for high volume players. I have had another idea that I consider decent and easy to implement. Make the FPPs finally worth something. Allow players to trade in FPPs 50k at a time for a 1% permanent increase in rakeback with a max of 85%.
This will make long time players happy as they probably have many accumulated already as well as give new players something to shoot for.
The scale for FPPs looks like 12.5k in rake= 50k FPPs, I think this would be a very fair way of dealing with it. To be honest increased tournaments overlays and free rolls etc is useless for most of the consistent player base on wpex and all it helps with is if a tourney donk wins and decides to lose it at the ring tables.
My idea allows someone to "pay their dues" for increased rakeback.
Here is the scale if you allowed people to do it.
12.5 at 75%= $3125 paid to wpex in rake
12.5 at 76%= $3000
12.5 at 77%= $2875
12.5 at 78%= $2750
12.5 at 79%= $2625
12.5 at 80%= $2500
12.5 at 81%= $2375
12.5 at 82%= $2250
12.5 at 83%= $2125
12.5 at 84%= $2000

Using this system WPEX will make $25,625 in rake off a player going from the starting point to the highest point of 85% rakeback at which point wpex is still making much more money than previously while making the player base happy. These "achievement" levels will encourage people to play and who knows maybe change the color of someones name if they reach the highest level or something to give it some sort of prestige.
This also gives a slight advantage to those who have been supporting wpex for a long time as they should already have points saved up.
Comments? Good idea or total pipedream?

Re: Rewarding Long Time Players idea
 

Seether, IMHO great idea! I suspect the incentive effect would be a big factor for some.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

If you weren't such a poor manager 100% rakeback would of never failed.

If you allowed pahud etc.

Got better software

You'd be doing a LOT better...ohhh...and try some more advertising [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Rewarding Long Time Players idea
 

[ QUOTE ]
Make the FPPs finally worth something.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. Even if not the plan you call for, let's get something out of them. They are really useless to the average player, and almost piss you off when you see them there on the cashier screen and know they are worth nothing.

I really like your idea, Seether. Who else has good ones? Let's brainstorm this a bit. Obviously, some kind of FPP store, maybe. Or larger buy-in FPP tourneys with some kind of real cash involved (much, much higher FPPs and Cash than the current.) Other ideas?

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you weren't such a poor manager 100% rakeback would of never failed.

If you allowed pahud etc.

Got better software

You'd be doing a LOT better...ohhh...and try some more advertising [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

A much as I wanted wsex to succeed, I tend to agree with this sentiment.

The decision, after listening to a few vocal yahoos like 'tuff_fish,' to limit action to 4 tables, dis-allow HUD use, was a disaster. The number one reason for the failure of this site.

Also, the 25% they are now keeping seems to be for defraying operating costs, which leads me to believe little will change in terms of advertising/affiliates, and therefore site traffic will be little effected.

This is the final curtain call for wsex, in a few months the site could be completely busto.

Good idea, poor execution. GG Wsex.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]


The decision, after listening to a few vocal yahoos like 'tuff_fish,' to limit action to 4 tables, dis-allow HUD use, was a disaster. The number one reason for the failure of this site....

Good idea, poor execution. GG Wsex.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think that even better execution on getting more traffic to their poker site would have accomplished their stated goal of getting more business to their sportsbook? If the poker site had boomed it would have required more resources to handle that and I bet still they wouldn't have gotten the crossover traffic they desired. The only way to guarantee that would have been to make a certain amount of sports betting a requirement for getting free rake.

Re: WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 11.)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think that even better execution on getting more traffic to their poker site would have accomplished their stated goal of getting more business to their sportsbook? If the poker site had boomed it would have required more resources to handle that and I bet still they wouldn't have gotten the crossover traffic they desired. The only way to guarantee that would have been to make a certain amount of sports betting a requirement for getting free rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so, but more traffic would have been better than less in any case. (and am I safe to assume the site is scalable, and that every new player did not have an exact corresponding increase in incremental operating cost?)