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-   -   $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps. (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=436696)

Pudge714 06-26-2007 09:10 PM

$225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
BB in this hand is gramps.
I lost a biggish chunk of my stack when same villain that limped this hand limped. I shoved AQ. AT>AQ. Villain has been limping a lot and had a hand where he limp called a raise with 32s and called my flop bet, turned a gutter called my turn bet. Gramps probably didn't' see that showdown though.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1215)
CO (t4570)
Button (t1470)
Hero (t4470)
BB (t1775)

Preflop: Hero is in SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, CO calls t150, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, Hero calls t75, <font color="red">BB raises to t1775 (All-in)</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, Hero calls t1625

Flop: (t3850) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)


Turn: (t3850) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)


River: (t3850) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Austiger 06-26-2007 09:20 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
I've made worse.

Gramps 06-26-2007 10:30 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
Gramps sees everything, and knows others have seen him see everything...

Collin Moshman 06-26-2007 11:06 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
Hi Pudge,

Getting roughly 5:4 here, it's a pretty marginal spot. The BB has seen a passive player limp and you merely complete, so he's probably shoving fairly wide with t450 up for the immediate taking. You could have software calculate expected equity given such a range, but I'm leaning intuitively toward a fold here.

This is because in a short-handed mid-high blind situation, I think a superior player should usually decline marginal situations to protect a big stack. You have a loose-passive big stack two to your right, and everyone else is comparatively short. You're near the bubble and the blinds are about to place the guys to your left in the sub 10 BB range. Protect your big stack and use it to steal hyper-aggressively, particularly as the blinds up to t100-t200.

That said, calling with a decent ace against a wide pusher here could only be a slight mistake at worst, so I couldn't fault a call.

Best Regards,
Collin

The Yugoslavian 06-26-2007 11:18 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
I've never had trouble dominating gramps before, [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

Yugoslav

ryanghall 06-26-2007 11:29 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
Don't like it at all. You're dominated by, like, a lot.

Ryan

Shillx 06-26-2007 11:42 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
slight mistake at worst
but I'm leaning intuitively toward a fold here


I'm not a PR guy and I'm leaning way more toward a fold. You're a 2:1 dog dude make some [censored] up quick. Also I'd highly suggest avoiding Gramps for the next few days. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Kevin8423 06-27-2007 12:47 AM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
With a player who limps often and your SB complete I can see this shove being pretty wide, but even so I doubt you are ahead of his shoving range with A9.

Luisgallo 06-27-2007 06:50 AM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
[ QUOTE ]
With a player who limps often and your SB complete I can see this shove being pretty wide, but even so I doubt you are ahead of his shoving range with A9.

[/ QUOTE ]

He might be ahead but it is certainly EV-.

Bronstein 06-27-2007 08:19 AM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
Considering how the chips are distributed among the players I'd fold. You'll soon have better chances.

Inyaface 06-27-2007 04:16 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
Meh I think it's bad but I'm sure you could convince me otherwise

durron597 06-27-2007 04:24 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
pros: this seems like an ideal spot for a PVS from gramps
cons: A9 is a really bad hand to snap off with b/c you're usually crushed if wrong

i prob call for stack size reasons

bones 06-27-2007 04:28 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
I prob call so I can post it and show everyone I play with how light I call.

Little John 06-27-2007 05:04 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
[ QUOTE ]
pros: this seems like an ideal spot for a PVS from gramps
cons: A9 is a really bad hand to snap off with b/c you're usually crushed if wrong

i prob call for stack size reasons

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking I fold for stack size reasons. Colin sorta explained it. If you fold this and one of the other two short stacks busts in L6 (to either pudge or other bigstack), then you can basically steal gramps chips at will.

Austiger 06-27-2007 05:07 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
But if you call and win, you're ON the bubble and can steal EVERYONE's stacks at will.

xPeru 06-27-2007 05:11 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
Pudge ... admit it, it was a spite call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Something I intend to do asap as well, coz he called one of my MP shoves with a pathetic pair of queens and bust me last time we played.

durron597 06-27-2007 05:19 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
[ QUOTE ]
But if you call and win, you're ON the bubble and can steal EVERYONE's stacks at will.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly

and if you call and lose, you are oop vs. gramps and have approximately the same stack with 2 other much shorter stacks

IWEARGOGGLES 06-27-2007 05:34 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
[censored] THAT INSTACALL.

IWEARGOGGLES 06-27-2007 05:34 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
SHOW GRAMPS WHO THE [censored] BOSS IS.

IWEARGOGGLES 06-27-2007 05:34 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
THIS IS MY SNG YOU'RE DEAD PAL.

AMT 06-27-2007 06:13 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
Goggles,

when is your SNG book coming out?

Gramps 06-27-2007 06:42 PM

Re: $225 Thin/Bad Call vs. Gramps.
 
This is one of those situations where you can assume certain ranges for BB, "oh, since limper is loose he could be pushing wide, so it's a good/not-too-bad of a play"...

But at the higher levels, very few good players push wide here (it's a habit that's easily exploitable) - some like me will now and then over loose limper, but will also intentionally push very strong hands (AK/QQ, maybe even KK/AA at times) b/c sometimes mid-pairs call your pushes when they'd call a small bet, fold the flop when behind, and people don't get a "range clarification" by your PF action allowing some good-not-great hands to call your pushes correctly.

If you've played a few hundred+ SNGs with me, you'd know A9 is way behind my range, and that calling loses you ~1/4 of a buy-in +, even with the overlay.

I mean, I think it's fine to call here and there out of "range curiousity" to help figure the thinking of a player (whom you're going to play many more SNGs against) out, though this spot is pushing it.

Okay, now someone post a hand where I call ridiculously loose...


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