Cold calling
 

Here comes a kind of blurry post that might belongs in SSNL but I try here.

I had a big leak a while ago that I called single-raises way too much from the blinds that I plugged pretty well (at least I think so). However I think I cold-call raises too much in position.

I have some poker friends that sais that it's hardly correct to cold-call at all.

Do you think it would be a big leak to never ever cold-call a single raise in a mid stakes 6-max NL except for pocket pairs, ie 3-bet or fold?

Can you give examples of when its hardly never correct to cold-call a raise but many players do?

Do you ever cold-call raises with hands like 65o or other trashy hands? For example if a very bad player opens in CO and you are on the button like 150bb deep, what about 100bb?

If someone have a link (2+2 or not) on the subject thats very welcome.

Re: Cold calling
 

good spots to call in position:

1. TAG opens, 50/30 fish in the blinds
2. kinda nitty TAG opens, you can use your position on him to steal pots

bad spots to call in position:
1. TAG opens, squeeze happy TAG in the blinds
2. good TAG opens, no big fish in the blinds, he has initiative and it's going to be tough to make money

these spots are good times to 3bet

Re: Cold calling
 

We all know the power of 3-betting PF, but it's possible 3-bet to the extent that you are reducing your expectation. For me, I cold call plenty, but that fits in with how I want to play and I believe, rightly or wrongly, that I can play well from the flop onwards. If I played more tables so I was on the limit, maybe I'd think differently.

It is probably a very slight leak to never cold call anything other than paids, but only in the sense that playing a more varied style may be a bit more +EV.

Re: Cold calling
 

I rele like this post. I think 3betting or folding in position is the best play, almost never flatcalling unless u rele want to induce a squeeze. 3betting gives you the edge in the hand and puts the other person to a decision, and playing a reraised pot in position is always good. Reraising gives you the lead in the hand, as opposed to calling, when you're on the defensive, sinces chances are, you'll face a cbet.

Re: Cold calling
 

I tried to make a post about this but no one cared. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Mebe you are more popular. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post10851163 <font color="white"> </font>

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think it would be a big leak to never ever cold-call a single raise in a mid stakes 6-max NL except for pocket pairs, ie 3-bet or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

it would make you very predictable for sure. say you call with 22 - 99 and raise or fold the rest - as soon as your opponent knows your calling range he can pretty much play perfectly against your narrow range. (except if you mix it up heavily postflop)

Re: Cold calling
 

mike is spot on here.

Re: Cold calling
 

Ive actually thought about this a lot in the past and I think that against good aggressive players it is mathematically wrong to cold call raises most of the time.

but I think it is profitable to do so when you add in the fact of how powerful position is in deep stacked nl, where you have the ability to take the pot away with nothing profitably because of how aggressive players are preflop now. Most of the time they dont have much and by having position on them it becomes profitable to float and raise flops with nothing occasionally.

Re: Cold calling
 

Think you pretty much have to plan on bluffing postflop alot of the time you dont improve to coldcall as the first guy.

Re: Cold calling
 

What is the precise definition of a cold call?

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the precise definition of a cold call?

[/ QUOTE ]
when someone opens a pot for a raise and you have nothing invested and u call that raise. or at least i think thats what it is

Re: Cold calling
 

Im not sure it could be a couple of different things, but in this post Im pretty sure the Op means calling an openers raise in position

Re: Cold calling
 

A friend of mine said that he very seldom calls a CO raise on the button (fold or 3-bet) because its a very exploitable for the blinds. Any thoughts about that?

I call in this spot all the time which might be stupid.

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine said that he very seldom calls a CO raise on the button (fold or 3-bet) because its a very exploitable for the blinds. Any thoughts about that?

I call in this spot all the time which might be stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely agree with this. it's also just really tough for the cutoff to want to take a flop with you, OOP vs a strong opponent, and sure he can know that you might be threebetting light because of your relative positions but he also knows that you know he knows this so it takes a lot of stones for him to bluff fourbet you either. in general raising CO opens from the button is a strong play with a wide range of hands, whereas calling just gives any decent reg in the blinds a chance to squeeze with top 20-30%ish of hands

Re: Cold calling
 

if the blinds are squeezing too much you can exploit them

this msnl effort to turn poker into entirely a preflop game is kinda silly imo. you'd think it's a crime against humanity to take a flop in position with lots of money behind against a guy with a weak hand range or something.

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the precise definition of a cold call?

[/ QUOTE ]

In this thread it seems to be more about calling a pf bet when no other players have called yet?

I tend to call quite a lot pf, probably more than a lot of players here. Could be a leak, but I'd have my various reasons at the time.

I'd do things like ep bets, one or two callers, I call on sb/bb w 35s, 79s etc. Views on that approach?

My calling range is quite wide when there has been

Re: Cold calling
 

So what do you do if you never cold-call with pocket pairs ?
Do you prefer to kill pocket pairs impliedd-odd ?

Re: Cold calling
 

Any more opinions on the subject?

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any more opinions on the subject?

[/ QUOTE ]

How come calling in position with a hand like AJs is wrong? It's not the best hand to reraise because we cannot stand a 4b with it. Also, calling in position with suited connectors against certain opponents is certainly fine. If we are deeper it pays off. For example yesterday I had 200 BB stacks versus this huge fish and called his UTG with 9Ts. He turned out to have KK and I stacked him with a straight. If I had reraised this hand he would have 4b and I would have folded.

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think it would be a big leak to never ever cold-call a single raise in a mid stakes 6-max NL except for pocket pairs, ie 3-bet or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

it would make you very predictable for sure. say you call with 22 - 99 and raise or fold the rest - as soon as your opponent knows your calling range he can pretty much play perfectly against your narrow range. (except if you mix it up heavily postflop)

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole point of position is to mix it up postflop, float, etc.

If all you know is that he has some pocket pair 22-99 you will have no idea where you stand on any board that's not three broadway cards.

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think it would be a big leak to never ever cold-call a single raise in a mid stakes 6-max NL except for pocket pairs, ie 3-bet or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

it would make you very predictable for sure. say you call with 22 - 99 and raise or fold the rest - as soon as your opponent knows your calling range he can pretty much play perfectly against your narrow range. (except if you mix it up heavily postflop)

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole point of position is to mix it up postflop, float, etc.

If all you know is that he has some pocket pair 22-99 you will have no idea where you stand on any board that's not three broadway cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

you will actually have a very good idea of where you stand on most boards.

There is nothing wrong with calling with a lot of hands in position (especially against a loose raiser). A lot of the time 3 betting actually cuts down the value you can get from your hand.

Something I've been toying with is making smaller 3 bets. But I don't think I like it.

If the blinds are squeezing overly often then you don't have to cold call/ fold. You can definitely cold call and then call again. Or even Cold call and shove (most people don't like this, because it really doesn't look like a big pocket pair, and means the squeezer has an easier time looking you up with 99-QQ.

In any case I don't see the mathematical argument that it is wrong to cold call in position frequently. Could somebody explain this to me? Where does the math come in?

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine said that he very seldom calls a CO raise on the button (fold or 3-bet) because its a very exploitable for the blinds. Any thoughts about that?

I call in this spot all the time which might be stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely agree with this. it's also just really tough for the cutoff to want to take a flop with you, OOP vs a strong opponent, and sure he can know that you might be threebetting light because of your relative positions but he also knows that you know he knows this so it takes a lot of stones for him to bluff fourbet you either. in general raising CO opens from the button is a strong play with a wide range of hands, whereas calling just gives any decent reg in the blinds a chance to squeeze with top 20-30%ish of hands

[/ QUOTE ]

if they are really squeezing with top 30% of hands then you have a very easy time calling or shoving over their squeeze. Depending on CO-s action.

also it starts to make a lot of sense to slowplay big pairs TT+ if they are doing this.

Re: Cold calling
 

[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine said that he very seldom calls a CO raise on the button (fold or 3-bet) because its a very exploitable for the blinds. Any thoughts about that?

I call in this spot all the time which might be stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

your friend is wrong.

a) the blinds have to be exploiting you for it to even be a problem

b) its very easy to exploit them exploiting you if you [censored] around with your calling range.

Re: Cold calling
 

i think i make a good amount of my profit from single raised pots where i don't have the initiative

Re: Cold calling
 

lol 3bet/fold camp

Re: Cold calling
 

Isnt Fsuplayer a very good example on players who calls a lot of raises in position? Would be very interesting to hear his thoughts on this subject..:)

Re: Cold calling
 

I think the thing is that if you cold call, and only continue if you hit and fold if you missed, then you won't make a profit. So you have to bluffraise, float, etc. But everybody knows that. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Against very good players/hand readers it's probably a bad idea to cold call with bad hands preflop, because they won't be so easy to exploit.

edit: it would be an interesting experiment to not 3-bet at all and only cold call for a few sessions. I think I might try that some time.

Re: Cold calling
 

You have to know how the person you're cold-calling plays and be able to outplay him to make cc'ing correct.