The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

Here are the pertinant facts.

Doc Brown is a mad scientist who creates a machine that allows him to travel back in time.

On Dec 18th 1955 your parents were driving to a Christmas Party in the next town. Your parents car ran out of gas on a very lonely road during a freakishly strong snow storm. Bored and horny, your parents had sex and you were conceived in the back of a 1951 Studebaker. Were it not for this exact set of circumstances you would not have come into existence.

Doc Brown knows the circumstances of your conception.

Doc Brown confesses too you that he hates you as much as any man could hate anyone. He also tells you he has plotted the perfect plan to do you in. You ask him for the details of the plan. He is so confident of his plan he tells you that he intends to go back in time to Dec 18th 1955 and put 5 gallons of gas into the gas tank of your parents 1951 Studebaker. In all the years you have known Doc Brown, you have never seen or heard of him lieing to anyone. You are 100% certain he has the means, the motive, and the opportunity to end your existence.

The only way to prevent Doc Brown from ending your existence in the manner he has described is to kill him.

Would you kill Doc Brown? If your were on a jury deciding the case of someone who killed Doc Brown would you decide the killer was not guilty by reason of self defense?

Stu

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

It's a different timeline FTW.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's a different timeline FTW.

[/ QUOTE ]
Correct. OP assumes there is only one time line. Star Trek has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that this is simply not true. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

wait are we using terminator rules or back to the future rules?

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

Hi btwmagnetw

The only rules we are using are the ones specified in the OP. Here's the answer to your question.

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The only way to prevent Doc Brown from ending your existence in the manner he has described is to kill him.

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I guess I'm not surprised that even after spelling that out in the OP a bunch of sphomoric answers would come.

Stu

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi btwmagnetw

The only rules we are using are the ones specified in the OP. Here's the answer to your question.

[ QUOTE ]
The only way to prevent Doc Brown from ending your existence in the manner he has described is to kill him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm not surprised that even after spelling that out in the OP a bunch of sphomoric answers would come.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]south park reference, but you're probably too good for that show, since you appear to be a pretentious douche.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi btwmagnetw

The only rules we are using are the ones specified in the OP. Here's the answer to your question.

[ QUOTE ]
The only way to prevent Doc Brown from ending your existence in the manner he has described is to kill him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm not surprised that even after spelling that out in the OP a bunch of sphomoric answers would come.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]

You propose an evil villain so dead set on killing you that he invents time travel to do you in and wonder why people give you the business?

Here are a few reasons:
1. Why the hell didn't the guy just shoot you? I mean really, just pull the trigger instead of changing physics as we know it.
2. If the only way to stop the villain from killing you is by killing him what exactly is the question then?
3. Bacon. Mmmm, bacon.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

http://www.bttfmovie.com/modules/ima...1955_doc_d.jpg

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]

You propose an evil villain so dead set on killing you that he invents time travel to do you in and wonder why people give you the business?

[/ QUOTE ]

I posed the question because I wanted to gain some insight into how others veiwed "potential people". For instance, if you would choose to aquit a person who "killed Doc Brown in self defense". Would you also choose to aquit someone who traveled from the future to the present in order to kill an abortion doctor in "self defense"?

The entire story is a thought experiment. Thought experiments are allowed to have ridiculous conditions inorder to expidite a thought process. BTW there isn't anything in my post that says Doc Brown specifically created time travel to do someone in. I honestly don't know why Doc Brown invented the time machine. Perhaps its in that movie Back to the Future. If knowing the reason is that important to you go rent the movie, watch it, and report back to us why he invented a time machine. I doubt anyone else is really interested though. Its not really important to the thought experiment.

Stu

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

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Would you also choose to aquit someone who traveled from the future to the present in order to kill an abortion doctor in "self defense"?

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This makes absolutely no sense, because if the abortion doctor had succeeded in aborting you how are u travelling from the future to prevent your abortion.. the abortion doc must have failed in his attempt to abort you, so there is no self defense, only a premeditated revenge murder for his failed attempt to abort you those many years ago...

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

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if the abortion doctor had succeeded in aborting you how are u travelling from the future to prevent your abortion..

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Great Scott!

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

Good lord, if you want to talk about abortion, talk about abortion. Don't go putting it in some weird hypothetical that as soon as you tie it back to abortion makes people want to kick you in the nuts.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

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The entire story is a thought experiment.


[/ QUOTE ]

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...hbeat/orly.jpg

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

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I honestly don't know why Doc Brown invented the time machine. Perhaps its in that movie Back to the Future. If knowing the reason is that important to you go rent the movie, watch it, and report back to us why he invented a time machine.

[/ QUOTE ]


Doc: "I didn't invent the time machine to win at gambling. I invented the time machine to travel through time."

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

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I posed the question because I wanted to gain some insight into how others veiwed "potential people".

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are alive how are you a potential person?

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

for an actual answer:

this scenario is akin to someone saying that he plans to come murder you on Friday at 5:00PM. you are 100% sure he will kill you and the only way to stop him is to shoot him now, on Wednesday. is this self defense?

probably not, and the original is probably not either. but i don't know the law. i don't think beign 100% certain that someone is about to kill you is legally possible. you have to stop them in the act so maybe traveling back in time along with doc brown and shooting him as he is putting the gas into the car would count as self defense.

but this would still be flimsy at best.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

There are so many confused concepts mixed up in the scenario a meaningful answer isn't possible to the whole. So skip the time travel part and deal with the concept of 'potential X"

Today Switzerland has the potential to build a nuclear bomb and attack us. Are we justified nuking them tonight?
A cabinet at work has all the components needed to assemble a good computer worth several thousand dollars. An employee smucked them. Should he pay me $3000 or the $500 the parts are worth?
My neighbor planted a seedling of an exotic fruit tree. My iguana ate it. Do I owe him replacement cost ($300) or the $12,000 the tree will be worth in 10 years?

My answers are that only X's are X's. Y's that can be/willbe converted to X are Y's that can be/willbe converted to X.

So, Switzerland should be spared, my employee owes me $500 and I owe my neighbor $300.

If your answers are different, beware that I'll be leaving acorns scattered around my house when you're over with mega lawsuits in mind.

next question.

luckyme

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

Any self-defense killing has a time variable associated with it. "In the act" means absolutely nothing, aside from the fact that it was close enough to the point of no return that you could be certain but still prevent it. Say T is like 1 second in some case where a guy pulled a gun, aimed it, and is obviously going to shoot you.

Well, if you were paying attention, you could probably have known that the guy was going to shoot you a few seconds earlier. The more information you have, the longer that lag time becomes (between knowing, and it happening).

This is fundamentally the same thing, aside from the fact that T is really really big, because we have the Delorean and can alter the size of T in whichever direction we'd like. In everyday life, we don't have to worry about that because we don't have 88 MPH Deloreans. Laws would definitely have to change if we did.

See: Minority Report.

Then see: The Twilight Zone episode where the mind-reader guy KNEW that the old man was going to rob the bank, and he didn't. He did think about it every day, though.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's a different timeline FTW.

[/ QUOTE ]
Correct. OP assumes there is only one time line. Star Trek has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that this is simply not true. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Not guilty by reason of saving the time line from contamination. Temporal Prime Directive.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good lord, if you want to talk about abortion, talk about abortion. Don't go putting it in some weird hypothetical that as soon as you tie it back to abortion makes people want to kick you in the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of kicking people in the nuts and abortion, what if you could travel back in time to kick Hitler's father in the nuts?

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good lord, if you want to talk about abortion, talk about abortion. Don't go putting it in some weird hypothetical that as soon as you tie it back to abortion makes people want to kick you in the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of kicking people in the nuts and abortion, what if you could travel back in time to kick Hitler's father in the nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know someone hasn't already gone back in time and kicked someone else in the nuts and through unintended consequences caused WW2 and through a series of related events, professional wrestling? I couldn't risk it.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

That is true-- wars have been started over less than a kick in the nuts.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

I'll cry if anyone doesn't vote for the first one.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

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I'll cry if anyone doesn't vote for the first one.



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nice going genius. Someone spite-voted BTTF 3.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

I would let Doc go back and do it. Non-existence at that time opens the door for existance later down the road when retarded radical muslims rule the world.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

I love thought experiments and thought this had a lot of potential. The responses thus far lead me to believe otherwise [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

Since you exist to kill him he must fail in preventing you from existing. He wouldn't be merely 'ending your existence' he would be preventing you from ever existing. This is impossible once you already have existed.

You are 100% certain he can do it, but you must be mistaken. It isn't genuine self-defense, but there are mitigating circumstances because you believed (mistakenly) that he was going to 'end your existence'.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if the abortion doctor had succeeded in aborting you how are u travelling from the future to prevent your abortion..

[/ QUOTE ]

Great Scott!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a pre-destination paradox obv.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You propose an evil villain so dead set on killing you that he invents time travel to do you in and wonder why people give you the business?

[/ QUOTE ]

I posed the question because I wanted to gain some insight into how others veiwed "potential people". For instance, if you would choose to aquit a person who "killed Doc Brown in self defense". Would you also choose to aquit someone who traveled from the future to the present in order to kill an abortion doctor in "self defense"?

The entire story is a thought experiment. Thought experiments are allowed to have ridiculous conditions inorder to expidite a thought process. BTW there isn't anything in my post that says Doc Brown specifically created time travel to do someone in. I honestly don't know why Doc Brown invented the time machine. Perhaps its in that movie Back to the Future. If knowing the reason is that important to you go rent the movie, watch it, and report back to us why he invented a time machine. I doubt anyone else is really interested though. Its not really important to the thought experiment.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]

So the 'separate timeline' answer has demonstrated to you the foolishness of the pro-life position, right?

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

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Who are the 3 people who didn't vote for BTTF I? I'm gassing up my Delorean and I apparently need to look up a few addresses.

Re: The killing of Doc Brown....murder or self defense?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


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Who are the 3 people who didn't vote for BTTF I? I'm gassing up my Delorean and I apparently need to look up a few addresses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I voted for the first and think it's pretty obvious, but it's not too grievous an offense to vote for others, especially II. II has a complex twisting alternate-universe time-hopping plot, and gave us hoverboards (somebody make them please) and a very cool vision of the future that isn't a dystopia as in every other film.

II was actually written about in a film textbook I read because of the idea of characters being directly or indirectly involved in scenes from the first movie, using some actual footage from the first in the process (leading to a Crispin Glover lawsuit I believe).

That being said, the hoverboard scene is actually done pretty poorly, especially the editing.

Also I want that pink Mattel hoverboard when they come out.

Eff Pit Bulls.