Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Last night I ran into my friend Thomas randomly. He has been a dealer at the Wynn for as long as I can remember, and has been working the WSOP full time this summer to raise some additional money for his wife and child. Thomas has always been a fantastic dealer, and is THE best dealer that I have had this year at the series. He's dealt to me two downs and the table was always impressed.

So last night he says to me, "I just got fired." The reason: He couldn't work overtime. His shift had just ended and the D/C asked him to stay on longer and work overtime. He said he can't becuase he works at the Wynn in 90 minutes and wants to get some food. They then say, "You're fired." He said that they have been needing a ton of dealers to work doubles because many dealers have been calling in for whatever reason. He was upset because he himself could have called in and not been fired, but since he wouldn't work overtime he got fired. This was about an hour before he had to be at the Wynn to deal all night.

I'm not sure what to say about that. I specifically asked him what the rest of the story is, because that just sounds too out there to be all the truth. I asked him if there was any history between him and the D/C, etc, etc... He said that the only thing was that he called in one time himself.

So lame.

Devo

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

If this is the guy I think it is, which I'm pretty sure it is, he was the best dealer I've had all year. We were getting more hands per hour with him then we would have with a normal dealer with a shuffle machine.

Pretty sad if this is true.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

isn't that illegal

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
isn't that illegal

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in most states. An employee or employer usually has the right to terminate employment for any reason.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Chalk this up as another fantastic decision by Harrahs. God these idiots ought to be kicked right in the [censored] nutz.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

wow that american capitalist system again.

Long live mother russia....Power to the people.

BTB In Australia this is also true for any company to issue an instant dissmissal if they have under 20 employees. All major companies/corporations must issue 3 warnings and Harrah's would have their ass handed too them.

However it would appear that he was never employed on a full-time basis and only a casual one hence he probably has no leg to stand on.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

I think if he went to the local paper and talked to a reporter about this, he could get the story out.

very [censored] up imo

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

I am sure eveything that Harrah's did was completely legal,

Don't mean to play devil's advocate here...but... from what I understand of employment law and the nature of employment for dealers in the US especially for the WSOP. That most of the dealers are in fact not regular dealers for Harrahs and are contracted out for the duration of the series, however unless he actually signed something saying he was to work a certian number of hours a day/week for the duration of the series he is entitled to no compensation.

Secondly if he did sign something like this he could have been in violation of this by not performing required overtime.

Here's a question though, Why didn't he call in sick to the Wynn??? It seems there was still enough time to do this and if he actually was a full-time employee there he would have to accept it. I feel the dealer in question (who I don't doubt is extremely competent based on the responses) probably handled himself poorly in this instance.

We all do this from time to time, it just always seems to be the case when somehting like this seems so single sided.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Well there is a story here but I'm afraid this man's firing would take a back seat to it. The story really is the answer to the question Are a large number of dealers calling out sick or is there another reason for the OT?
As far as the firing goes it sounds to me like many of the dealers are probably freelancers which means they are self-employed. They are probably working on 1099s. That means they have absolutely no job security other than what he creates for himself. Harrahs obviously doesn't care about his skill. They need the body.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Is he that black guy? If so he was amazing. One of the few dealers who actually was able to keep track of the pot in PL events, and was extremely quick in just about everything he did.


C

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
isn't that illegal

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in most states. An employee or employer usually has the right to terminate employment for any reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Not sex, age, race, disability, etc. etc.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly. Harrah's is in a bit of a crisis because they don't have enough dealers (calling in, whatever).

Sooo... Their solution is to fire dealers at the drop of a hat?

LDO!

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

this is sooooo effin ridiculous

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am sure eveything that Harrah's did was completely legal,

Don't mean to play devil's advocate here...but... from what I understand of employment law and the nature of employment for dealers in the US especially for the WSOP. That most of the dealers are in fact not regular dealers for Harrahs and are contracted out for the duration of the series, however unless he actually signed something saying he was to work a certian number of hours a day/week for the duration of the series he is entitled to no compensation.

Secondly if he did sign something like this he could have been in violation of this by not performing required overtime.

Here's a question though, Why didn't he call in sick to the Wynn??? It seems there was still enough time to do this and if he actually was a full-time employee there he would have to accept it. I feel the dealer in question (who I don't doubt is extremely competent based on the responses) probably handled himself poorly in this instance.

We all do this from time to time, it just always seems to be the case when somehting like this seems so single sided.

[/ QUOTE ]


Because calling in sick to his full time employer would be unethical and wrong. The fact that you would even suggest this makes me hope that a) you play poker professionally/are not of employment age and b) that all Australians do not have your liaise faire attitude toward work commitments.

The employee in question could have called his boss at the wynn and asked if they had extra dealers scheduled and if they would not mind him showing up late but just calling in sick would be simply wrong.

Also, I am pretty sure that these dealers have "employment at will" meaning that they could be fired for anything that is not protected by statute. It is highly likely that refusal to work overtime is not protected (whereas being a pregnant woman would be protected) and I am confident (despite not being familiar with the state laws or the facts of the case) that a major organization like Harrah's is not going on the wrong side of the law in this instance.

They are however exhibiting ridiculously bad judgment. If they have a dealer shortage the last thing they want to be doing is firing their best dealers!

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question though, Why didn't he call in sick to the Wynn???

[/ QUOTE ]

Strikes me as very -EV when you compare how well the Wynn guys are compensated vs. what Harrah's is probably paying.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

I am a former manager at Caesars.

It is clearly outlined in the employee handbook that any nonunion employee who refuses to work overtime is subject to immediate separation.

The dealer DID know this. The dealer was probably warned by the D/C before giving a final answer - under the repeat a directive and make sure that they understand the consequence clause of HR policy. But I can't guarantee that the D/C warned him or asked him a second time.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Wait what, union employees and non union employees have different contracts? [censored] up contract, for this guy, whatever the case.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wait what, union employees and non union employees have different contracts? [censored] up contract, for this guy, whatever the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your labor laws and the general tenor of the labor-management relationship is much more prolabor than ours. In America, if you are not part of a union, you don't have many of the protections that are standard across Europe.

I just completed a degree in labor relations and spoke to many people (in the labor movement) who were shocked the first time they witnessed the concessions that European workers union and nonunion alike take for granted.

Also, despite the fact that unions confer great benefits to their workers, our unionization rate is much lower than yours. Especially in the private sector.

[/hijack]

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wait what, union employees and non union employees have different contracts? [censored] up contract, for this guy, whatever the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Union employees bargained for overtime based on a bidding structure. If you are offering limited overtime, it must go to the most senior employee who wants it. If I gave overtime without offering it to everyone on the shift, or without bidding it out, then every employee in the department would have to be paid that time. Part of their bargaining also protects them from mandatory overtime.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Some follow-up:

Thomas couldn't call in sick to the Wynn as the Wynn has made it very clear not to be missing as they have been slammed as well.

Lots of people have been calling in, thus the need for OT. Thomas was mourning, "If I had called in sick, I would have been fine."

I told this story to Lee Markholdt today sitting in the ten seat. The dealer overheard me and said this, word for word... "They have been looking for any excuse to fire people... I heard that a couple of floor people were walking around during break taking chips off the table simply to fire the dealer if he didn't say anything."

Obviously that's just dealer heresay, but, WOW. Plus, if they're having problems with people calling in, why are they looking for any excuse to fire people?

He's not the black guy. Early 30's white guy 5'10"ish skinny complexion EXTREMELY fast and EXTREMELY compentent at all games.

Devo

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Devo,

Why would they be looking to fire part time dealers if they were short staffed?

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Beats me, I asked the same question myself. He was full-time though - just seasonal for the series.

Devo

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

I know who you're talking about and I agree - best dealer I've had at the series and it wasn't close. He was very fast dealing, shipping pots, getting action going, etc. and that's really a shame if he was actually fired.

This makes absolutely no sense and is yet another reason to hate Harrah's.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

i dont really care about the ethics so much as the (complete lack of) logic that is so standard for harrahs. "MAN WE REALLY NEED MORE DEALERS AND MORE HOURS...YOURE FIRED".

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]

So last night he says to me, "I just got fired." The reason: He couldn't work overtime. His shift had just ended and the D/C asked him to stay on longer and work overtime. He said he can't becuase he works at the Wynn in 90 minutes and wants to get some food. They then say, "You're fired."


[/ QUOTE ]

I see nothing wrong with this. Is the problem that he is your friend, or the, "best dealer?" He tells his supervisor that he will not work O/T because he has to eat so he can be ready to work for the competition.

There is usually more to these stories then what the fired person puts out there so I am not going to crucify Harrah's for this. As it reads they had a good reason to let him go.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think if he went to the local paper and talked to a reporter about this, he could get the story out.


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Sissy Spacek can play him in the film adaptation of the story.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

One point here that I didn't see mentioned.

I'm sure that Harrahs knew FULL well when they hired him on, that he worked elsewhere as a regular job. Plus, if he did tell them (prior to being hired) that he was (only) working for Harrahs on the side, and his other job came first, then Harrahs had not business demanding him to work OT in the first place.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
Devo,

Why would they be looking to fire part time dealers if they were short staffed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the guy running HR for the WSOP likes firing people for sh&t's and giggles. Some of you are too much.

Oh, here is their new HR Director.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7...rnsdesk9bq.jpg

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
One point here that I didn't see mentioned.

I'm sure that Harrahs knew FULL well when they hired him on, that he worked elsewhere as a regular job. Plus, if he did tell them (prior to being hired) that he was (only) working for Harrahs on the side, and his other job came first, then Harrahs had not business demanding him to work OT in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

See the earlier posts re. OT and dealers in general. He knew OT may be a possibility and when he said he was not going to work OT he had to have known he was probably going to be dismissed.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Is he the one who always had a wierd look on his face and got all the cards out to a 9 handed omaha table in like 5 seconds? He also announced every action in a really weird drawn out voice that made me laugh every time.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
Devo,

Why would they be looking to fire part time dealers if they were short staffed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

he was second best dealer.. black guy that was in the armed forced for 6 years is certainly the best

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am sure eveything that Harrah's did was completely legal,

Don't mean to play devil's advocate here...but... from what I understand of employment law and the nature of employment for dealers in the US especially for the WSOP. That most of the dealers are in fact not regular dealers for Harrahs and are contracted out for the duration of the series, however unless he actually signed something saying he was to work a certian number of hours a day/week for the duration of the series he is entitled to no compensation.

Secondly if he did sign something like this he could have been in violation of this by not performing required overtime.

Here's a question though, Why didn't he call in sick to the Wynn??? It seems there was still enough time to do this and if he actually was a full-time employee there he would have to accept it. I feel the dealer in question (who I don't doubt is extremely competent based on the responses) probably handled himself poorly in this instance.

We all do this from time to time, it just always seems to be the case when somehting like this seems so single sided.

[/ QUOTE ]


Because calling in sick to his full time employer would be unethical and wrong. The fact that you would even suggest this makes me hope that a) you play poker professionally/are not of employment age and b) that all Australians do not have your liaise faire attitude toward work commitments.

The employee in question could have called his boss at the wynn and asked if they had extra dealers scheduled and if they would not mind him showing up late but just calling in sick would be simply wrong.

Also, I am pretty sure that these dealers have "employment at will" meaning that they could be fired for anything that is not protected by statute. It is highly likely that refusal to work overtime is not protected (whereas being a pregnant woman would be protected) and I am confident (despite not being familiar with the state laws or the facts of the case) that a major organization like Harrah's is not going on the wrong side of the law in this instance.

They are however exhibiting ridiculously bad judgment. If they have a dealer shortage the last thing they want to be doing is firing their best dealers!

[/ QUOTE ]

To answer in a way your questions/statements?

a) I work full-time as a finance broker here is Sydney and do not rely on any Poker Income that I receive to support myself.

b)I do not have a [ QUOTE ]
liaise faire attitude

[/ QUOTE ] towards any of my work commitments. Unfortunately alot of people in Australia do seem to have them. In the 12 months that I have been working for this particular company I have had 2 days off due to a head on car collision.

I simply offered a suggestion whilst not completely ethical per say would have ended in no real harm being done to either of the parties.

Personally after this altercation had occured another solution would have been to "go above this managers head" to try and find a way around this problem. It is unfortuante that this is the stance that Harrah's has taken in this instance, but in now way illegal.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

Oh and BTB,

i think it's lassez-faire couldn't be stuffed looking it up though

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and BTB,

i think it's lassez-faire couldn't be stuffed looking it up though

[/ QUOTE ]

actually its laissez-faire.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

teamwork

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

are you kidding me. all i read on this site is "harrah's dealers suck. these dealers keep messing up. now a dealer has chosen to walk out...leave player's chips unattended, leave a table without a dealer and everybody is complaining "that's so harrah's!!!" yeah, he was a great employee...let's see, he has called in (once in your first 3 weeks of a job is not acceptable) then he walked out. if harrah's had not fired him everyone would be complaining about that. come on, you walk off any job, you are fired. give me a break.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

and yes, the floor staff are trying to take chips off the tables. the dealer's are protect the player's stacks. i am not a big harrah's fan but these are good strides. i'm sorry the guy lost his job, but these are positive steps.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you kidding me. all i read on this site is "harrah's dealers suck. these dealers keep messing up. now a dealer has chosen to walk out...leave player's chips unattended, leave a table without a dealer and everybody is complaining "that's so harrah's!!!" yeah, he was a great employee...let's see, he has called in (once in your first 3 weeks of a job is not acceptable) then he walked out. if harrah's had not fired him everyone would be complaining about that. come on, you walk off any job, you are fired. give me a break.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is customary during special events where you employ dealers from other rooms that you do not ask them to miss shifts at their primary job. Experienced delaers will deal the WSOP, but only if the money is good and only if it doens't interfer with their primary job.

Re: Harrah\'s fires best dealer for not working overtime
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you kidding me. all i read on this site is "harrah's dealers suck. these dealers keep messing up. now a dealer has chosen to walk out...leave player's chips unattended, leave a table without a dealer and everybody is complaining "that's so harrah's!!!" yeah, he was a great employee...let's see, he has called in (once in your first 3 weeks of a job is not acceptable) then he walked out. if harrah's had not fired him everyone would be complaining about that. come on, you walk off any job, you are fired. give me a break.

[/ QUOTE ]

never post again please