Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

... try and start a political movement to repeal the provision in the NYS constitution that prohibits casino gambling, and get at least poker, and possibly the rest of casino gambling legalized in NYS?

This would mean, going on the record as supporting gambling, contacting politicians, the media, etc to push the position, organizing and attending events, etc.

It would help to contact and try to involved some of the gaming companies, especially those with little or no presence in Atlantic City. It's no secret that Trump has derailled previous attempts at this to protect his AC empire. But there are some very powerful companies that could benefit from this, who could pust serious muscle and money behind it. Steve Wynn built a huge and very effective lobbying operation at Mirage, and I assume he has one at this new company. MGM still probably maintains his old one. Sands/Venetian would probably be in a position to help. Combined with a real grass roots organization, this could be very powerful. I also think some of the unions might want to get involved UNITE/HERE (the hotel worker union) would probably love to see big hote/casinos built in NYS, especially by the big casino companies they already have good relationships with.

Personally, I find it patent ridiculous that New York bans gambling. I'm sick of having to play in third rate boiler rooms, having to worry about being robbed or busted. But doing something about it will mean a lot of people will have to get off their ass and do something. Is anyone willing?

There's a poll attached to this. If you live in NY State, and would consider getting involved answer yes. If not...

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

Is there not an easier way to just legalize cardrooms like CA?

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
... try and start a political movement to repeal the provision in the NYS constitution that prohibits casino gambling, and get at least poker, and possibly the rest of casino gambling legalized in NYS?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Get off your soap box and come back when you have a law degree and 10 years of your time to invest. If you stopped to do your research you would learn its been tried before and failed, that Pataki tried to open 5 casinos upstate NY and that failed too (its not dead yet, but the Feds stopped the plan). A grass roots movement coordinated by a bunch of poker-player degenerates without clout, money, or legal experiance won't do anything.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

I wish somebody could explain to me why we can't have casinos, or at least poker rooms, in New York. There are OTBs everywhere, including some that are in bars and restaurants. There are race tracks near the city. Yonkers raceway has a BS casino, which is just slots and maybe bad video poker.

Anyway, I would help if there was a campaign of some sort to get poker in New York City or within an hours drive.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

What I'm talking about is political, not legal. I'm not talking about sliding an indian casino in sideways under the constitutional ban, I'm talking about getting rid of the ban.

Thinks have changed since Pataki's attempts. The poker boom is one of them. The increase in other forms of gaming in and around NYC is another. We now have slots (oh, excuse me, video lottery terminals), in Yonkers.

I have to think that there are State Legislators who are looking lasciviously at the tax revenues that AC generates. I got to think there would be traction in the thousands of jobs (middle class, semi-skilled, union jobs with benefits, for those who can't cut it at the Wall Street level), that this would create.

There are people with the clout, money, and experience you talk about out there. They would stand to profit mightily if this worked.

[ QUOTE ]

LOL. Get off your soap box and come back when you have a law degree and 10 years of your time to invest. If you stopped to do your research you would learn its been tried before and failed, that Pataki tried to open 5 casinos upstate NY and that failed too (its not dead yet, but the Feds stopped the plan). A grass roots movement coordinated by a bunch of poker-player degenerates without clout, money, or legal experiance won't do anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

The New York State Constitution directly and explicitly bans casino gambling. The clause directly lists card games as among those prohibited.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there not an easier way to just legalize cardrooms like CA?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Unfortunately.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

If political means are unachievable, what about military means. When politics fails, doesn't military action usually follow?

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

Probably not in this case.

[ QUOTE ]
If political means are unachievable, what about military means. When politics fails, doesn't military action usually follow?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
What I'm talking about is political, not legal. I'm not talking about sliding an indian casino in sideways under the constitutional ban, I'm talking about getting rid of the ban.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congress forbid Pataki's attempt to open casinos in NY State. Thats about as political as it gets my friend, when the feds say no way to the Govenor's plan then you know you are screwed. In the past tribes could enter into a state compact and open a casino on sovereign land, but the loophole was that sometimes the tribe would buy land that was not originally sovereign as pert of the compact agreement. Now tribes can only enter in a compact with the state if they intend to operate a casino on their native grounds - provided they already own the land. Unfortunately this completely screwed with Pataki's casino-zoning legislation, and the entire plans that he had in place for the past decade fell down like tumbling blocks last year. I was told the congressional ban was in direct response to Patacki's intentions, but it was probably also part of the anti-Jack Abramoff movement after his arrest.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

TT,

You miss my point. Everything you talk about relates to using the indian gaming "loophole" to the state constitution. That brought the feds into play, but only as regards indian gaming.

I don't know why, but Pataki avoided the direct approach of just changing the constitution. This can be done. If that's done, the indian gaming issue goes away. The state could just authorize private casinos, as is done in Nevada, AC, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc..

Now, I'm not minimizing what it would take to push this through. It's a vote of both houses of the state legislature AND it has to go on a ballot for a statewide election. But casino gaming in general, and poker in particular, has gotten much more popular than it was the last time this was tried (back in the 80's maybe). I think a push now could be successful.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
TT,

You miss my point. Everything you talk about relates to using the indian gaming "loophole" to the state constitution. That brought the feds into play, but only as regards indian gaming.

I don't know why, but Pataki avoided the direct approach of just changing the constitution. This can be done. If that's done, the indian gaming issue goes away. The state could just authorize private casinos, as is done in Nevada, AC, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc..

Now, I'm not minimizing what it would take to push this through. It's a vote of both houses of the state legislature AND it has to go on a ballot for a statewide election. But casino gaming in general, and poker in particular, has gotten much more popular than it was the last time this was tried (back in the 80's maybe). I think a push now could be successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got your point all along, but you stand a better chance at repealing UEGIA than you do in changing the NY State constitution. I was showing how Pataki tried a back-door solution but was shot down.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Section 1. Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the senate and assembly whereupon such amendment or amendments shall be referred to the attorney-general whose duty it shall be within twenty days thereafter to render an opinion in writing to the senate and assembly as to the effect of such amendment or amendments upon other provisions of the constitution. Upon receiving such opinion, if the amendment or amendments as proposed or as amended shall be agreed to by a majority of the members elected to each of the two houses, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals, and the ayes and noes taken thereon, and referred to the next regular legislative session convening after the succeeding general election of members of the assembly, and shall be published for three months previous to the time of making such choice; and if in such legislative session, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be agreed to by a majority of all the members elected to each house, then it shall be the duty of the legislature to submit each proposed amendment or amendments to the people for approval in such manner and at such times as the legislature shall prescribe; and if the people shall approve and ratify such amendment or amendments by a majority of the electors voting thereon, such amendment or amendments shall become a part of the constitution on the first day of January next after such approval. Neither the failure of the attorney-general to render an opinion concerning such a proposed amendment nor his or her failure to do so timely shall affect th* validity of such proposed amendment or legislative action thereon.
*So in original. ("th" should be "the".)

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm reading that right, it says changing the state constitution takes a majority vote in both houses in two legislative sessions followed by a statewide referendum. I'd say that's a pretty tall order...getting Silver's and Bruno's whims to align on simple issues is hard enough.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

I think Bruno and Silver would be the easy part. They're politicians. You just need to show them what's in it form them, like bucket fulls of tax revenue to fund their pet projects without raising taxes, lots of jobs for their constituents, lots of money for contractors (to use for campaign contributions). You get the picture. And since once you've sold them, the rest of the legislature will fall in line, you don't have to do too much with the other legislators.

The election would be tougher. There are still more than a few people around with broomsticks up their rectums that don't like gambling. But between the boom in poker, and the general rise in popularity of casinos, the tide may have turned.

[quote
If I'm reading that right, it says changing the state constitution takes a majority vote in both houses in two legislative sessions followed by a statewide referendum. I'd say that's a pretty tall order...getting Silver's and Bruno's whims to align on simple issues is hard enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

I think this is a great idea. But rather than try a grassroots approach why not get in touch with Al D'Amato who now heads the Poker Players Alliance. As a Republican ex-US Senator from NY he has remarkable clout among Republicans. And he is an avid poker player. Since it was the Republicans who shoved the on-line gambling ban down everyone's throats via a backdoor stealth in the dark manuever it may very well be that Silver will like it too. I believe that Governor Abrams may react positively because he is still seeking the casinos that Pataki wanted - and this may solve his revitalization effort problem without getting those casinos.

Perhaps if the ammendment to the constitution were worded explicity to allow poker only, and then by approval from a given municipality via general ballot referendum, it could give all NY politicians cover. I actually think that NY City would pass on this because they routinely fill their hotels to capacity anyway. But nearby locales, like Yonkers would be ideal sites (did I mention I live iin Yonkers?)

Note that your rosy picture of casino revenue and jobs will be disputed by many (including myself). Promises made for Atlantic City had mixed results at best. There are big financial burdens that fall on municipalities as a result of the combination of poor people and the addictive nature of gambling. And most jobs that are created are of the minimum wage variety.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that Governor Abrams ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Who?

Anyway, there are really two exceptions to the gambling ban under NY Law. The first and biggest is the various forms of state sponsored gambling -- lotteries, horse racing, the slots in Yonkers. (The second is charitable gambling and that is only allowed with in a narrow band that does not include poker -- despite all the charitable poker tournaments.) There is very little incentive to begin the political fight to legalize for-profit gambling in any form. There is also a fairly strong and organized lobby against it (the morals/religous police as well as the lobbies paid for by the Indian Casinos and AC).

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe that Governor Abrams ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Who?


[/ QUOTE ]
Got my Elliott's mixed up... Spitzer is who I meant...

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]


LOL. Get off your soap box and come back when you have a law degree and 10 years of your time to invest. If you stopped to do your research you would learn its been tried before and failed, that Pataki tried to open 5 casinos upstate NY and that failed too (its not dead yet, but the Feds stopped the plan). A grass roots movement coordinated by a bunch of poker-player degenerates without clout, money, or legal experiance won't do anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

There will be casinos in upstate new york, catskill mountains.

It might take another 5-10 years, but it's inevitable.

A few tribes have made some very large aquisitions in preparation for this(what used to be the Concord Hotel among other things), as well as the changing of the major highway to increase funding for expansion.

If you'd like me to go more into the dynamics behind why it is needed and will eventually happen, let me know.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


LOL. Get off your soap box and come back when you have a law degree and 10 years of your time to invest. If you stopped to do your research you would learn its been tried before and failed, that Pataki tried to open 5 casinos upstate NY and that failed too (its not dead yet, but the Feds stopped the plan). A grass roots movement coordinated by a bunch of poker-player degenerates without clout, money, or legal experiance won't do anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

There will be casinos in upstate new york, catskill mountains.

It might take another 5-10 years, but it's inevitable.

A few tribes have made some very large aquisitions in preparation for this(what used to be the Concord Hotel among other things), as well as the changing of the major highway to increase funding for expansion.

If you'd like me to go more into the dynamics behind why it is needed and will eventually happen, let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know about the Concord purchase, and also Spitzer's subsequent support but the deal is now off the table until they can get around the federal regulations that dictate how Indian tribes can declare sovereign lands. Unless there is new news since February I am not privy to, the deal is nearly dead.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

Driving from midtown Manhattan to the Catskills and driving to the Poconos takes roughly the same time. As recent posts in the legislation forum have pointed out, there is a very high chance of table games coming to PA within a couple of years (slots already coming).

For this reason I think NYC players need to be focusing less on Indian laws and regulations and trying to focus on just poker - that is, somehow proving that skill is a MUCH more predominant factor than luck.

Last time I posed this question it was left unanswered: isn't there some sort of legal precedent with backgammon (can't seem to find any info online)? Also, as funny as it sounds, pinball? Here is something I found:

[ QUOTE ]
<Pinball is a game that was banned in New York as it was considered to be a gambling game. In 1976 it was reinstated after it was proved to be a game of skill.

A ban on pinball machines in New York City (established in 1942) is lifted when Mr. Roger Sharpe, a writer for Esquire magazine, demonstrates to the City Council the ability to drop the 80 gram balls down any preselected lane at the top of a pinball machine by adjusting the way he pulls back the plunger. (Source: icwhen.com)
http://www.icwhen.com/book/the_1970s/1976.shtml

Testifying before the New York City Council at a hearing on pinball in April 1976, Sharpe, then a 27-year-old magazine editor in Manhattan, played three balls on a Gottlieb Bankshot, explaining to his audience as he played how pinball was a game of skill, not of chance. Sharpe
tells what happened next: "'Even down to this plunger,' I told them, 'there's skill. If I pull this back the right way, I should be able to send the ball into the middle slot.' I actually specified a lane, which, in retrospect, I probably should not have done. I pulled back the plunger, and wouldn't you know, boom boom, it went straight down where I had said [it would go]. These people kind of threw up their hands and said, 'All right. Enough. Fine, thanks.'"
The council reinstated pinball in New York City that summer. (Source: Cigar Aficiado).
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar...Show_Article/0,2322,608,00.html>

[/ QUOTE ]

Still, even if a powerful lobby with political backing and good lawyers could get involved here, the chances might be raised from zero to 5%. Sad.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


LOL. Get off your soap box and come back when you have a law degree and 10 years of your time to invest. If you stopped to do your research you would learn its been tried before and failed, that Pataki tried to open 5 casinos upstate NY and that failed too (its not dead yet, but the Feds stopped the plan). A grass roots movement coordinated by a bunch of poker-player degenerates without clout, money, or legal experiance won't do anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

There will be casinos in upstate new york, catskill mountains.

It might take another 5-10 years, but it's inevitable.

A few tribes have made some very large aquisitions in preparation for this(what used to be the Concord Hotel among other things), as well as the changing of the major highway to increase funding for expansion.

If you'd like me to go more into the dynamics behind why it is needed and will eventually happen, let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know about the Concord purchase, and also Spitzer's subsequent support but the deal is now off the table until they can get around the federal regulations that dictate how Indian tribes can declare sovereign lands. Unless there is new news since February I am not privy to, the deal is nearly dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

No real new news coming at the moment, but the mood on the eventual deal remains positive despite the setback. My family has owned land/been going up there for the past 60-odd years (summers) so I'm basing it more on information from prominent people up there then news sources. They've had slot machines at the Monticello Raceway for the past few, but full-blown casinos are really needed to give that area a shot in the arm and they're confident that this land deal will eventually be approved.

If I head up there for a little bit this summer I'll try and gather some more concrete information. Really rooting for the Concord though.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Still, even if a powerful lobby with political backing and good lawyers could get involved here

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. Go hire the lawyers, lobbyists, and put together a warchest to make this happen. Then hire counter-lobbiests to chase after the Indian and AC lobbys, and a PR person to counter Donald Trump's inevitable complaints. Then report back to us when your done.

An idea is useless if you cannot make the vision come to life. Put up or shut up is my philosophy on life, talking about how we should lobby is wasted energy - start lobbying and get the ball rolling; just don't waste our time dreaming about change unless your capable of trying to implement change.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

There are entities that have the resources to to this. They're called gaming companies. They just need to be convinced that it's worth their while.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still, even if a powerful lobby with political backing and good lawyers could get involved here

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. Go hire the lawyers, lobbyists, and put together a warchest to make this happen. Then hire counter-lobbiests to chase after the Indian and AC lobbys, and a PR person to counter Donald Trump's inevitable complaints. Then report back to us when your done.

An idea is useless if you cannot make the vision come to life. Put up or shut up is my philosophy on life, talking about how we should lobby is wasted energy - start lobbying and get the ball rolling; just don't waste our time dreaming about change unless your capable of trying to implement change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are entities that have the resources to to this. They're called gaming companies. They just need to be convinced that it's worth their while.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still, even if a powerful lobby with political backing and good lawyers could get involved here

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. Go hire the lawyers, lobbyists, and put together a warchest to make this happen. Then hire counter-lobbiests to chase after the Indian and AC lobbys, and a PR person to counter Donald Trump's inevitable complaints. Then report back to us when your done.

An idea is useless if you cannot make the vision come to life. Put up or shut up is my philosophy on life, talking about how we should lobby is wasted energy - start lobbying and get the ball rolling; just don't waste our time dreaming about change unless your capable of trying to implement change.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you missed my point, the gaming lobby doesn't want gambling in NY State. They also didn't want gambling in PA. They make too much money in AC to allow it to be further fractured. Trump spends a fortune every year fighting this, he is probably the most vocal of the casino owners. Remember that most major casino operators have a footprint in AC, if its not in their interest, they wont support it.

Hey, I am all for gambling in NY - I hope you dont misread my sarcasm. Problem is every 4 months someone gets on a soap box here and declares that poker should be legal in NY State, and then does absolutely didly to make it happen. I know the owners of most of the private poker clubs in NYC, they don't believe there is a thing they can do the change the law; isn't it ironic? And yes, they have lawyers working for them.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

Gaming in NYC would have winners and losers on the business end. But there are huge gaming interests that have no interests in AC. The three I mentioned are in that category (Wynn, LV Sands, MGM, with the caveat that MGM has a piece of the Borgata).

I would also think the the pro-lobbyists, could put some torque on the anti-lobbists, if it were pointed out publically that the politicians on their side were acting against the interests of New York, and in the interests of NJ.

And, also, if a good representative sample of the poker playing (and blackjack, craps, and, hell, even roulette playing) population of NY made themselves heard, who knows...

But yeah, your right. I'm tilting at windmills. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gaming in NYC would have winners and losers on the business end. But there are huge gaming interests that have no interests in AC. The three I mentioned are in that category (Wynn, LV Sands, MGM, with the caveat that MGM has a piece of the Borgata).

[/ QUOTE ]

Wynn is buying property in AC. Sands expressed last year that they want to avoid operating on the east coast at this stage (I dont know why), MGM is operating Indian casinos on the East Coast including the one at the Concord if the deal is ever completed. Wynn is rumored to be a part of the TRUMP buyout deal, but there is so little info trickling down that I dont know what is true anymore.

[ QUOTE ]
But yeah, your right. I'm tilting at windmills. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its ok... we are all frustrated. And I really do encourage you to get involved if a group ever gets organized. But tilting at windmills is just wasted energy, I'd rather see you save it for the day when we can really help bring about change. You mentioned D'Amato before, he wouldn't be on our side if he wasn't being paid big dollars to do so; thats just so sad [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

if you guys want card games in NYC the solution is to keep the clubs quiet, stay away from the idiots who keep bringing heat and stop letting everyone and their mothers into your games. the clubs will eventually be back, and the question is whether people ever learn that playing with robert iler isn't cool and things are much better if you STFU and keep the game alive.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you guys want card games in NYC the solution is to keep the clubs quiet, stay away from the idiots who keep bringing heat and stop letting everyone and their mothers into your games. the clubs will eventually be back, and the question is whether people ever learn that playing with robert iler isn't cool and things are much better if you STFU and keep the game alive.

[/ QUOTE ]


QFMFT, problem is some owner will always wnat the fat fast celeb cash and put risk at the other clubs

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

Robert Iler and other celebs did not bring down the 61st Street club or the other one (other ones?) closed last week. The fact is the police knew these clubs existed and refrained from interfering with their business until the armed robbery two weeks ago. Who do you blame for that? Of course, the scumbags who actually robbed the place. Who else? The owners? the operators? the publicity? the fact that the club was holding bigger games than the other large clubs? I really don't know.

Personally, I don't play the omnipresent NLHE very often (or even LHE anymore). The bigger clubs were actually able to bring enough players together to spread other games. And in these larger clubs, you had HE players that were willing to take a spin at the other games with no clue how to play (which made the games far more profitable). Indeed, on the night of the robbery, they were talking about spreading the mix I believe is standard at the Wynn 20/40 (27TD, Badugi, Omaha8, Stud8). I was excited....

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
You mentioned D'Amato before, he wouldn't be on our side if he wasn't being paid big dollars to do so; thats just so sad [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I am no fan of Al D'Amato. He was corrupt from the gitgo and I never voted for him. But I doubt very much that he is in this for the money. He is an avid poker player - who happens to be very politically connected. If anything, he misses the limelight and the power and control. As much as I detest Republican politicians I say use him! His nickname was "Senator Pothole" because of his ability to get little things done for his constituents.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You mentioned D'Amato before, he wouldn't be on our side if he wasn't being paid big dollars to do so; thats just so sad [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I am no fan of Al D'Amato. He was corrupt from the gitgo and I never voted for him. But I doubt very much that he is in this for the money. He is an avid poker player - who happens to be very politically connected. If anything, he misses the limelight and the power and control. As much as I detest Republican politicians I say use him! His nickname was "Senator Pothole" because of his ability to get little things done for his constituents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait till you see how much he is being paid to work for the PPA as a lobbyist, he is in it for the money all the way. The PPA can hurt his other business, this now associates him with Rick Abramoff - not something that is wise for a politician, but absolutely fine if your taking home a fat paycheck. This is not a surprise to people who have been critical of the PPA in the legislation forum, its possibly a very corrupt organization, go check out the excellent threads by BluffThis to learn more! When the PPA releases it's tax returns we will learn at that time.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

I think what annoys me the most is that, as much as we'd like to see Vegas style gambling in NY, or maybe specifically because of it, whoever can pull it off can make more money than god. You would think that would pull in players who could pull it off, but no one seems to want to step up.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Robert Iler and other celebs did not bring down the 61st Street club or the other one (other ones?) closed last week. The fact is the police knew these clubs existed and refrained from interfering with their business until the armed robbery two weeks ago. Who do you blame for that? Of course, the scumbags who actually robbed the place. Who else? The owners? the operators? the publicity? the fact that the club was holding bigger games than the other large clubs? I really don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I do blame the owners. They were reckless in how they ran the place and it ended up making things worse for a bunch of other people. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that certain practices are going to bring unwanted attention to the clubs, and cause disruptions to the games. That's the bottom line - players want good games, they want them to be safe and they want them to run consistently.

These people basically wanted to go a different route, cash in on publicity and do it without taking precautions that more responsible owners do on behalf of their players. Their profile was too high.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

I blame mgmt of the 61st place for just letting anyone in and not taking care of the scene

BTW I doubt the cops knew the other places existed...

but we really should chill with this talk in public , PM if you want anymore info

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

This is a catch-22 situation. If the clubs want to survive, they need to bring in new players (the old player also want new player, who tend to be fishier).

However, this means the clubs have to have some level of public exposure. We know what this means...

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]


I blame mgmt of the 61st place for just letting anyone in and not taking care of the scene

BTW I doubt the cops knew the other places existed...



[/ QUOTE ]

98.75% sure the cops knew that the raided club on 27th Street existed prior to the robbery and 125% certain they knew that the "sister" club existed months earlier.

A general discussion of this matter is fine for this board and helpful to players and prospective players. Specifics about actual, mythical or hypothetical clubs that might still exist in the city is bad.

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a catch-22 situation. If the clubs want to survive, they need to bring in new players (the old player also want new player, who tend to be fishier).

However, this means the clubs have to have some level of public exposure. We know what this means...

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO!

Re: Are there enough NYC poker players who care to...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a catch-22 situation. If the clubs want to survive, they need to bring in new players (the old player also want new player, who tend to be fishier).

However, this means the clubs have to have some level of public exposure. We know what this means...

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO!

[/ QUOTE ]

other clubs get a LOT of players without the kind of exposure they had on 61st. games were fantastic at the midtown clubs and they kept things more under wraps.