Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

I really don't understand why we do this. At 50 and 100nl where i play most of the time, reraising will often fold the original raiser leaving you with a small return for your big hand.

Flat calling disguises your hand completely and you can often win a huge pot by doing this.

I am aware of other factors involved but would rather hear from you all first, in this discussion, so i will better understand the principles involved in playing these hands this way.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

IF they are folding to all your 3-bets here then you are either not 3-betting enough (so when you 3-bet your hand is pretty much face up) or they are playing really weak, which means you should 3-bet more to take advantage of this.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

Start 3-betting light more. I get plenty of action on my big pairs and I have a rather tight image.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
IF they are folding to all your 3-bets here then you are either not 3-betting enough (so when you 3-bet your hand is pretty much face up) or they are playing really weak, which means you should 3-bet more to take advantage of this.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ah, pay dirt already. I hadn't looked at it from this perspective. I do not reraise that often. Almost exclusively AK, AA, KK, and maybe AQ, JJ, 1010, if its the button raising first in. That does make my hand pretty transparent.

The question becomes "what other hands do i want to reraise with, that aren't probably weaker than the original raisers hand"

Are we talking 99, 88, KQs, AJs maybe?? I can't think of much else. Thoughts???

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
Start 3-betting light more. I get plenty of action on my big pairs and I have a rather tight image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this not overprice the cost of playing the light hand you are raising with? Perhaps do this by minraising $4 to 8 instead of $4 to $14 for instance, with 10,10 for example.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

Throw in some occasional SC. Just try things out, reraise alot of CO openings on the button if CO is loose, even with junk like KTs. People are often very thickheaded and wont adjust.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Start 3-betting light more. I get plenty of action on my big pairs and I have a rather tight image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this not overprice the cost of playing the light hand you are raising with? Perhaps do this by minraising $4 to 8 instead of $4 to $14 for instance, with 10,10 for example.

[/ QUOTE ]


wow, do not do this, you are giving opponent odds to call with any two. Plus, you want to build the pot with your strong hands, and often this is easiest pf

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Start 3-betting light more. I get plenty of action on my big pairs and I have a rather tight image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this not overprice the cost of playing the light hand you are raising with? Perhaps do this by minraising $4 to 8 instead of $4 to $14 for instance, with 10,10 for example.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, you're the guy who min 3-bets AA?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

reraise light more, and if you want to occasionally just call, make sure your in posistion and the blinds are tight. (so that they'll fold more often than call)

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
Throw in some occasional SC. Just try things out, reraise alot of CO openings on the button if CO is loose, even with junk like KTs. People are often very thickheaded and wont adjust.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, of course J10s, 10,9s, QJs would be very good hands here. ty

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Start 3-betting light more. I get plenty of action on my big pairs and I have a rather tight image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this not overprice the cost of playing the light hand you are raising with? Perhaps do this by minraising $4 to 8 instead of $4 to $14 for instance, with 10,10 for example.

[/ QUOTE ]


wow, do not do this, you are giving opponent odds to call with any two. Plus, you want to build the pot with your strong hands, and often this is easiest pf

[/ QUOTE ]

Do not do what exactly. Do not reraise with 10,10. or do not min reraise with 1010?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]

Are we talking 99, 88, KQs, AJs maybe?? I can't think of much else. Thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

If they're folding all the time then it doesn't matter what you have, does it?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

Do not min raise PF with TT (or any other hand really)

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Start 3-betting light more. I get plenty of action on my big pairs and I have a rather tight image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this not overprice the cost of playing the light hand you are raising with? Perhaps do this by minraising $4 to 8 instead of $4 to $14 for instance, with 10,10 for example.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, you're the guy who min 3-bets AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you trying to help me out here??? if so in what way?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Are we talking 99, 88, KQs, AJs maybe?? I can't think of much else. Thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

If they're folding all the time then it doesn't matter what you have, does it?

[/ QUOTE ]

At 50 nl they fold 75% i would say.
at 100 nl they fold about 60%. imo
Conversely at 200NL they don't fold much at all. Its really a dramatic difference.

I digress. I see your point. It really doesn't matter much what i am holding, if they fold to any reraise.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do not min raise PF with TT (or any other hand really)

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean minraise, which i do not do, or min REraise which i suggested earlier with 10,10?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

this is a dumb thread (not trying to be a [censored], just want you to realise that not rr is really really bad). I could go over the numerous reasons, but come on op. Slow playing at ssnl??

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

Both. But I was referring to min reraise.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is a dumb thread (not trying to be a [censored], just want you to realise that not rr is really really bad). I could go over the numerous reasons, but come on op. Slow playing at ssnl??

[/ QUOTE ]

I call....please go over the numerous reasons.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

1: big pots for big hands

2: they'll call you with crap anyway because they hate folding, you're being results orientated

3: you're letting speculative hands see a cheap flop, you want to make pps and scs make a mistake, they won't be if you let them in cheap. You're giving them great odds to outdraw you

4: opponents play so badly post flop anyway, that the deception isn't worth it.

5: you won't know where you stand either, because your hand is so underrepped.

6: most players play worse (including regs) in rr pots.



that's basically it i guess. Put it this way i love players who slow play big pps and welcome them to my table any day.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Start 3-betting light more. I get plenty of action on my big pairs and I have a rather tight image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this not overprice the cost of playing the light hand you are raising with? Perhaps do this by minraising $4 to 8 instead of $4 to $14 for instance, with 10,10 for example.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, you're the guy who min 3-bets AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, the min 3-bet is one of the worst options here, the only thing worse would be just folding the aces preflop. Pop it up big or smooth call, I don't like getting fancy and making delicate raises with big pairs preflop. It gives opponents the idea that you've got a big hand, but also does not cost them much. Make 'em pay if you really want to lose a bit of deception, or keep your hand in disguise and just call the raise.

As a follow-up question, or rather, an expansion of the original, what are your thoughts about 3-bet vs. SC in position as opposed to out of position?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

3-betting IP > 3-betting OOP especially with marginal holdings.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting IP > 3-betting OOP especially with marginal holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely.. start opening up your 3-betting range when a loose CO opens. It gets you a ton of action, sometimes when you don't want it though, so you have to learn how to play 3-bet pots with junk/marginal stuff.

Don't 3-bet hands like ATo or A7s, you'll get into a lot of trouble. I'll elaborate later why but I think it's fairly transparent.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

When you have a high PP preflop, you want to build a big pot and get as much money in as possible when you are a heavy favourite. E.g. PF you have KK, or AA, well you can be pretty sure you are ahead of your opponents range so why wouldnt you want to get in as much money as possible?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand why we do this. At 50 and 100nl where i play most of the time, reraising will often fold the original raiser leaving you with a small return for your big hand.

Flat calling disguises your hand completely and you can often win a huge pot by doing this.

I am aware of other factors involved but would rather hear from you all first, in this discussion, so i will better understand the principles involved in playing these hands this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold preflop

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
1: big pots for big hands

2: they'll call you with crap anyway because they hate folding, you're being results orientated

3: you're letting speculative hands see a cheap flop, you want to make pps and scs make a mistake, they won't be if you let them in cheap. You're giving them great odds to outdraw you

4: opponents play so badly post flop anyway, that the deception isn't worth it.

5: you won't know where you stand either, because your hand is so underrepped.

6: most players play worse (including regs) in rr pots.



that's basically it i guess. Put it this way i love players who slow play big pps and welcome them to my table any day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you unknown soldier......nice list and i was familiar with most of it.....

1. agreed, big pots for big hands

2. at 50 nl not so much but as the stakes get higher they definitely call more in my experience

3.this is the most compelling reason why the reraise is required imo. I've certainly been sacked by 10,8o catching two pair on the flop and getting stacked by them.

4. this is a huge mistake in your thinking imo. SOME opponents (25%) play really badly, but the rest should not be underestimated. This is a quick assumption leading to ruin.

5. With KK, QQ, JJ i agree 100%. Here, i often will reraise if the opponent led utg, just to see where i am at preflop. If they call a big reraise, they usually have a big hand, and the SC's get folded.

6. i have no idea why you say this.. but then i don't reraise pots that often and may not have learned what it is you know here. Care to elaborate...

there is one more good reason....
7. You will sometimes get it all in preflop with the best hand , which is always wonderful. My best experience in this regard was my AA vs KK, and KK.....lol bigggggg pot

So, thanks for your input, it has helped me to review this fundamental playing principle, and discussion really does clear up the concept. I will rreraise more often. ty all for posting yhere..and good luck out there.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand why we do this. At 50 and 100nl where i play most of the time, reraising will often fold the original raiser leaving you with a small return for your big hand.

Flat calling disguises your hand completely and you can often win a huge pot by doing this.

I am aware of other factors involved but would rather hear from you all first, in this discussion, so i will better understand the principles involved in playing these hands this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

sarcasm never does much for me when i'm trying to understand something better. take it elsewhere.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

just from my experience in playing them and posting on 2+2 alot of people seem pretty clueless and make mistakes in rr pots (which are more costly then mistakes in raised pots of course)


as for 4 you're right i don't just assume everyone is bad. I make them give me a reason first, but you should be at a table where your opponents play badly. So if everyone is playing decent poker then i leave.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

If you ever want to crush SSNL, you need to be very aggressive preflop.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
just from my experience in playing them and posting on 2+2 alot of people seem pretty clueless and make mistakes in rr pots (which are more costly then mistakes in raised pots of course)


as for 4 you're right i don't just assume everyone is bad. I make them give me a reason first, but you should be at a table where your opponents play badly. So if everyone is playing decent poker then i leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, i've come to the same conclusion. *It doesn't take too long to size up the table, and if they are all pretty good i move on. Party is great for that because table selection is so huge. Stars on the other hand sucks in this regard.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

Read:

The Theory of Poker

/end thread

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
Read:

The Theory of Poker

/end thread

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the book. What specifically are you referring to in the book. Page numbers would be really good.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Read:

The Theory of Poker

/end thread

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the book. What specifically are you referring to in the book. Page numbers would be really good.

[/ QUOTE ]


Anything concerning odds.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand why we do this. At 50 and 100nl where i play most of the time, reraising will often fold the original raiser leaving you with a small return for your big hand.

Flat calling disguises your hand completely and you can often win a huge pot by doing this.

I am aware of other factors involved but would rather hear from you all first, in this discussion, so i will better understand the principles involved in playing these hands this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

sarcasm never does much for me when i'm trying to understand something better. take it elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Little sense of humor never hurt anyone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously though, not reraising these hands is going to cost you a boatload of money in the longrun. Like others have said before, if you're not getting action, your 3-betting range is likely a bit too small. I love to reraise with hands like 65s, 22-44 occasionaly, T9o. It's important to keep in mind what you want to happen postflop when you reraise.

Out of curiosity, what is you sample size of "not getting action?"

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand why we do this. At 50 and 100nl where i play most of the time, reraising will often fold the original raiser leaving you with a small return for your big hand.

Flat calling disguises your hand completely and you can often win a huge pot by doing this.

I am aware of other factors involved but would rather hear from you all first, in this discussion, so i will better understand the principles involved in playing these hands this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

sarcasm never does much for me when i'm trying to understand something better. take it elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Little sense of humor never hurt anyone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously though, not reraising these hands is going to cost you a boatload of money in the longrun. Like others have said before, if you're not getting action, your 3-betting range is likely a bit too small. I love to reraise with hands like 65s, 22-44 occasionaly, T9o. It's important to keep in mind what you want to happen postflop when you reraise.

Out of curiosity, what is you sample size of "not getting action?"

[/ QUOTE ]

my sample size is 3 years of play and about 300,000 hands most at 50 and 100NL. Its not scientific, its just a sense of how often the original raiser folds when reraised. More at 50NL than at 100NL.

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

are you one of these types who limps w/ these hands and then whines endlessly when they get cracked by one of the 4-6 people who saw the flop?

Re: Reraising pocket AA, KK, QQ, theory question????
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you one of these types who limps w/ these hands and then whines endlessly when they get cracked by one of the 4-6 people who saw the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. You'll have to find your associates elsewhere.