200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $723.25
BB: $247.15
Hero (UTG): $445.15
MP: $228.25
CO: $223.50
BTN: $199.00

Reads: <font color="blue">No reads. Just numbers. Villain is BTN. I have him at 17/12 over about 120 hands.

Obviously i cant fold preflop. No point 4betting. Didn't see the point in checkraising the flop coz im not getting called by worse except maybe the nutflush draw. Thought i could just fold if an A/K comes.

What you think of flop? CRAI better? Is there any point leading this flop? Nowadays when i underrepresent my hand like this I feel i have to call down light and then have no idea where I stand in the hand.

Is it better to lead and assume he only raises/pushes with a hand that beats mem so i can safely fold? Atleast that way im not getting into tricky situations that im probably not good enough to handle?</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $8.00</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $26.00</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $18.00

Flop: ($55) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $40.00</font>, Hero calls $40.00

Turn: ($135) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets all-in for $133.00</font>, Hero ?????

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

i think i crai the flop, although it could be spew.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

too much smooth calling

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

If the villian often 'protects his button' with 3bets then I will 4bet PF with this hand.

As played this is tought. You beat JJ or a bluff, I put you at 40/60.

Fold and pick a better spot.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

You raised UTG, so from what I've seen people don't play AK/JJ this aggressively on the turn. Looks like you are up against AA/KK almost all the time here. You played it fine, now fold.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the villian often 'protects his button' with 3bets then I will 4bet PF with this hand.

As played this is tought. You beat JJ or a bluff, I put you at 40/60.

Fold and pick a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, you think he has 40% change of being good and you advice him to fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

QQ, nice flop, i'm all in.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
QQ, nice flop, i'm all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and you lose. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

orange: even against a nit?

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the villian often 'protects his button' with 3bets then I will 4bet PF with this hand.

As played this is tought. You beat JJ or a bluff, I put you at 40/60.

Fold and pick a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, you think he has 40% change of being good and you advice him to fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I do. He's losing the majority of the time in this scenario so calling here is baaaaaaaaaadddd. EV-

http://www.bozosoft.com/mike/sheep/sheep1.jpg

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

joeblack: if you think im winning 40% of the time i shold call because im getting 2-1 on the call.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
QQ, nice flop, i'm all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats pretty much my thought process here as well.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

i guess if he never EVER shows up with worse then you can sometimes c/f. i think its closer with you raising from UTG though.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

so if we think we are winning why go all in? what hand will he call with?

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

Ok, most of you advocate a fold postflop.
But one question guys, why do you call preflop then?
For which flop are you waiting for, no overcards, you beat 99-JJ + AK. Great. If you fold here, fold preflop.
Dont tell me you play qq for set value....

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

turbojunge: 5 people have explicitly given their opinion. one person just said i was calling too much and didnt give an answer of whether i should fold/call. another personn just laughed at somebody saying fold since im only winning 40% of the time, without explaining why that thought process is wrong.

of the other 5 people, 3 said get it all in, 2 said fold.

so basically your comment about "most of you advocate a fold" is wrong. most people are saying get it all in.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
joeblack: if you think im winning 40% of the time i shold call because im getting 2-1 on the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 40/60 was a rough number not literal. I think you have an excellent mathematical mind silentnoise but I don't mean those #'s to be exact.

I am positive we are behind here - fold.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, most of you advocate a fold postflop.
But one question guys, why do you call preflop then?
For which flop are you waiting for, no overcards, you beat 99-JJ + AK. Great. If you fold here, fold preflop.
Dont tell me you play qq for set value....

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my thought process....

I would c/r the flop, willing to put it all in.

If he has KK,AA... I then type in "nh"... whine about how bad I run... yell at the cat about how I hate poker... etc.. standard stuff

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

I don't think anybody advocated folding the flop.
Fold the turn as played because a tight player is not reraising preflop and then firing two more bullets without AA, KK, or TT in this spot.

I think the better line on the flop is leading into the raiser for half the pot (especially if you don't think he would bluff raise with AK). If he raises a lot, fold. If he raises a little or just calls then stay in and fire again.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

SilentNoise: Ok, maybe i miscounted the opinions.

Vee Quiva: Which part of our "read" (17/12) tells us what his 3bet range and his double barrel range is?

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

wow you guys fold queens here? if this isn't levelling you guys must be getting run over.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
SilentNoise: Ok, maybe i miscounted the opinions.

Vee Quiva: Which part of our "read" (17/12) tells us what his 3bet range and his double barrel range is?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a great point. Does being selective preflop truely tell us how a player will act on the flop, turn, etc...

Is is completely out of line to find a player who is selective preflop, but pushes their hands hard post flop.

Also, imo if I was on the button and the utg player flat call my flop bet, I would read this as a scared over pair and shove the turn, expecting a fold.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
wow you guys fold queens here? if this isn't levelling you guys must be getting run over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dear wise man,

What hands do we beat?

From,

A Nit

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wow you guys fold queens here? if this isn't levelling you guys must be getting run over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dear wise man,

What hands do we beat?

From,

A Nit

[/ QUOTE ]

77,99,jj,AK,and tie QQ

What hands are we behind, TT, KK, AA

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

Oh right because 77,99, and possibly even JJ play the hand this way..

NO YOUR AN IDIOT!

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

I crai flop. Let him decide if his 99-JJ is good.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

I would C/R AI on the flop. As played, I'm still not sure I can fold the turn. Depends on how aggressive villain is postflop.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

Bet/call the flop or CRAI.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh right because 77,99, and possibly even JJ play the hand this way..

NO YOUR AN IDIOT!

[/ QUOTE ]

Aggressive players will SOMETIMES fire two shells with all of those hands and worse. I think this hand really depends on our read of villain, and what we think our image is.

Also, no need to call other people idiots. Very douche bag-ish indeed.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh right because 77,99, and possibly even JJ play the hand this way..

NO YOUR AN IDIOT!

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a high percentage chance that I am an idiot.

If I could give you some advice, an easier way to get your point across would have been to simply state that you believe the villain has AA or KK and anyone who disagrees with you is a huge moron.

just my humble opinion.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
joeblack: if you think im winning 40% of the time i shold call because im getting 2-1 on the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 40/60 was a rough number not literal. I think you have an excellent mathematical mind silentnoise but I don't mean those #'s to be exact.

I am positive we are behind here - fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of all the people in this thread, you're the only one who's consistently not making any sense at all.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
NO YOUR AN IDIOT!

[/ QUOTE ]

Classic. Or maybe a tiresome cliche.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

Im all in on this flop

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

wtf you beat JJ, AK , AQ, random suited connectors on a spade / straight draw, random cards, air, 99. i mean dude its a button 3bet, i haven't played at 1/2 in a long time but if people are folding queens here you have to be getting killed. maybe he has aces or kings, but most peoples range is a hell of a lot wider here than KK+... i mean [censored] you might as well fold preflop is you're going to fold here. in fact just fold every hand except for aces and then fold the flop if you dont flop a set. but what board are you looking for with QQ to go broke? QQx?

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

All of you saying that you're all-in, and this is a nice flop. (im not claiming that he should fold, i just simply don't know)

How would you react to the following flops
10J2 rainbow &lt;- nice flop aswell?
456hearts &lt;- how about this?
777 &lt;-this flop?
all-in?

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

from now on do NOT listen to any advice from joeblack.

i insta-call this. or push flop.

like you said, you underrepped your hand. villain might put you on 99-10,10 or something you might fold enough to make this push profitable. he doesn't always have AA-KK here and to narrow his range that much is asking for trouble. just call here, you're ahead enough to make this a HUGE mistake to fold.

Re: 200nl - QQ - maybe i should stop underrepesenting my hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $723.25
BB: $247.15
Hero (UTG): $445.15
MP: $228.25
CO: $223.50
BTN: $199.00

Reads: <font color="blue">No reads. Just numbers. Villain is BTN. I have him at 17/12 over about 120 hands.

Obviously i cant fold preflop. No point 4betting. Didn't see the point in checkraising the flop coz im not getting called by worse except maybe the nutflush draw. Thought i could just fold if an A/K comes.

What you think of flop? CRAI better? Is there any point leading this flop? Nowadays when i underrepresent my hand like this I feel i have to call down light and then have no idea where I stand in the hand.

Is it better to lead and assume he only raises/pushes with a hand that beats mem so i can safely fold? Atleast that way im not getting into tricky situations that im probably not good enough to handle?</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $8.00</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $26.00</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $18.00

Flop: ($55) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $40.00</font>, Hero calls $40.00

Turn: ($135) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets all-in for $133.00</font>, Hero ?????

[/ QUOTE ]

call.