$300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

Table's been playing tight. I've opened a decent amount, but i've only shown down once with qq. Should I just 3 bet the flop? I think I should have just shoved the turn, but I dunno. River seems like easy check. Thoughts?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t2270
UTG+1: t2565
djk123: t3190
MP2: t2200
MP3: t1805
CO: t1620
Button: t3015
SB: t2685
BB: t3180

Pre-flop: (9 players) djk123 is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">djk123 raises to t90</font>, 5 folds, BB calls t60 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t135)</font>.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t195, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">djk123 bets t120</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to t320</font>, djk123 calls t200 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t635)</font>.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t835, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets t600</font>, djk123 calls t600 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1435)</font>.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t2035, 2 players)
BB checks, djk123 checks.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

You have very strong hand, your opponents most likely holding is an overpair to the 443 board. They will almost certainly call SOMETHING on the river. I would also have raised the turn, they will probably fold an overpair like 88-TT but you never know, and you give them free outs with stuff like 55/66.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

shove over the bet on the turn

and why in the world would you check the river?

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

I think a river bet would be sexy. He bets all straights and boats right?

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

yea i think shove turn for sure.
thinking about river now I guess it probably should be a bet. Oh well, like i said i suck. I should think more before I act.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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shove over the bet on the turn

and why in the world would you check the river?

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agreed.

overpair is his most likely holding and no one ever folds an overpair

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

I raise the turn. And I bet this river always. You have the best hand like 95% of the time.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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I think a river bet would be the easiest value bet in the history of the world.

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FYP

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

People who say things like "I suck deep stacked" when they're talking 100 BB make me sad. Anyway, you need to find a way to be arrrr innnn here.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

Hey, at least I'm honest. I'm the epitome of a tourney donk. I know for a cash game player deep isn't until at least 200bb, but given that I play almost exclusively online mtts, i rarely have 100bb stacks. But I'm trying to get better in these spots, which is why i posted the hand.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

[ QUOTE ]
People who say things like "I suck deep stacked" when they're talking 100 BB make me sad. Anyway, you need to find a way to be arrrr innnn here.

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LOL,unfortunately,in a tournament,doesn't 100bb = woohoo,yippi,I'm dancin' on the ceiling etcetc. Or maybe it's just the ones I'm playing that are ai shovefests.....

Anyhoo....can't imagine that we'll see many hands that have us beat here. Overpair most likely,and he's probably not folding that anytime,and on the river,surely he'll bet any hand that has us beat?

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

I do not shove the turn, they are folding any worse hand, youre losing all value. Betting the river is the main reason for not shoving the turn. You have to bet river.

And this forum is suppose to be constructive, stop giving the guy a hard time and give positive feedback or dont say anything at all.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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I do not shove the turn, they are folding any worse hand, youre losing all value. Betting the river is the main reason for not shoving the turn. You have to bet river.

And this forum is suppose to be constructive, stop giving the guy a hard time and give positive feedback or dont say anything at all.

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Our opponents aren't good at poker, thats why we play and most of us make money from playing. This means that they arent going to automatically fold 99 on the turn because we raise them. If hero posts the same exact hand but says he has AK, do you honestly think everyone will say "you have to raise the turn because your opponent is definitely going to fold his overpair?". Of course not, because we don't expect our random online opponents to fold overpairs, except somehow when we have a bigger overpair, then everyone gets scared to death that a raise will make them instafold.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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I do not shove the turn, they are folding any worse hand, youre losing all value. Betting the river is the main reason for not shoving the turn. You have to bet river.

And this forum is suppose to be constructive, stop giving the guy a hard time and give positive feedback or dont say anything at all.

[/ QUOTE ]


Our opponents aren't good at poker, thats why we play and most of us make money from playing. This means that they arent going to automatically fold 99 on the turn because we raise them. If hero posts the same exact hand but says he has AK, do you honestly think everyone will say "you have to raise the turn because your opponent is definitely going to fold his overpair?". Of course not, because we don't expect our random online opponents to fold overpairs, except somehow when we have a bigger overpair, then everyone gets scared to death that a raise will make them instafold.

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If it was a smaller buyin tournament I would probably agree, but I'm thinking that in a $300 buyin tournament these people would have some level of thought.

Besides protecting against 55/66, what else is the raise doing? Do you think that when the 7 hits on the river the villian is going to be scared you made a straight? I honeslty dont see the reasoning for raising and the chance he might fold when it's possible to get a fair amount of chips on the river.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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I do not shove the turn, they are folding any worse hand, youre losing all value. Betting the river is the main reason for not shoving the turn. You have to bet river.

And this forum is suppose to be constructive, stop giving the guy a hard time and give positive feedback or dont say anything at all.

[/ QUOTE ]


Our opponents aren't good at poker, thats why we play and most of us make money from playing. This means that they arent going to automatically fold 99 on the turn because we raise them. If hero posts the same exact hand but says he has AK, do you honestly think everyone will say "you have to raise the turn because your opponent is definitely going to fold his overpair?". Of course not, because we don't expect our random online opponents to fold overpairs, except somehow when we have a bigger overpair, then everyone gets scared to death that a raise will make them instafold.

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If it was a smaller buyin tournament I would probably agree, but I'm thinking that in a $300 buyin tournament these people would have some level of thought.

Besides protecting against 55/66, what else is the raise doing? Do you think that when the 7 hits on the river the villian is going to be scared you made a straight? I honeslty dont see the reasoning for raising and the chance he might fold when it's possible to get a fair amount of chips on the river.

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So you are saying you would definitely raise with any 2 cards (assuming you have nothing) here correct?

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

3bang flop

bet river if u didnt.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

I definitely 3bet the flop. You need to get him to get his money in before a scare card hits on the turn, and he'll probably do it with something stupid like 77.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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People who say things like "I suck deep stacked" when they're talking 100 BB make me sad.

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I guess Alan Goehring makes you sad. In his view, 100xB+ is considered deepstack in tournament nlhe.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

[ QUOTE ]
People who say things like "I suck deep stacked" when they're talking 100 BB make me sad.

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100 BBs in an online tourney IS deepstacked, and clearly that is the situation he was referring to, so there is no need to feel sad or give OP a hard time.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

Raise more preflop

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

I,d have 3 bet the flop and be happy to get it in since many cards can kill our action and I'm not that concerned about a 4 even though he could have one

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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I do not shove the turn, they are folding any worse hand, youre losing all value. Betting the river is the main reason for not shoving the turn. You have to bet river.

And this forum is suppose to be constructive, stop giving the guy a hard time and give positive feedback or dont say anything at all.

[/ QUOTE ]


Our opponents aren't good at poker, thats why we play and most of us make money from playing. This means that they arent going to automatically fold 99 on the turn because we raise them. If hero posts the same exact hand but says he has AK, do you honestly think everyone will say "you have to raise the turn because your opponent is definitely going to fold his overpair?". Of course not, because we don't expect our random online opponents to fold overpairs, except somehow when we have a bigger overpair, then everyone gets scared to death that a raise will make them instafold.

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If it was a smaller buyin tournament I would probably agree, but I'm thinking that in a $300 buyin tournament these people would have some level of thought.

Besides protecting against 55/66, what else is the raise doing? Do you think that when the 7 hits on the river the villian is going to be scared you made a straight? I honeslty dont see the reasoning for raising and the chance he might fold when it's possible to get a fair amount of chips on the river.

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So you are saying you would definitely raise with any 2 cards (assuming you have nothing) here correct?

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I'd have folded the flop to the check/raise if I have nothing, but yes, I dont think the shove is awful with AK, I probably try it about 20% of the time if I have any signs that the villan can think.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

looks like an easy flop 3bet against a random player.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

Why one earth are people advocating three betting and the like? You think everyone just wants to stack off with 88-1010? I dont understand, early in tournaments it seems much more valueable to get a lot more value out of your big hands rather than protect them against people you have drawing so thin.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

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Why one earth are people advocating three betting and the like? You think everyone just wants to stack off with 88-1010? I dont understand, early in tournaments it seems much more valueable to get a lot more value out of your big hands rather than protect them against people you have drawing so thin.

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You already said youd raise the turn with nothing only 20% of the time. If they are really refusing to stack off with 88-TT and thats exactly what you put them on, you should be bluffing 100% of the time, so your strategy is extremely inconsistent. If you are too scared to raise AA because you are sure they will fold the hand you put them on, you simply must bluff a huge % of the time here, otherwise your logic makes no sense. Of course I think they will call with hands like 88-JJ a relatively decent % of the time, so I don't have to raise with nothing to justify my thought process.

Also people will definitely give you all their money with TT-88 a decent amount of the time, this isn't even a question against some random internet player. Also acting like a $300 buyin event makes any real difference is crazy, there are satellites to these events and a decent number of the players are extremely bad.

btw I would also 3 bet the flop, and raise the turn and bet the river.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

A few assumptions that are pretty close to correct on this flop:

1) Your opponent can't have a better hand than you.
2) Your opponent is likely to overvalue his hands.
3) Your opponent is likely to get bluff happy and expects you to do the same.
4) Your opponent is likely to puss out for silly reasons with many of his holdings on many turn cards.

So why are you calling the flop? Are you slowplaying on a 443 board? Are you worried he has one of the 8ish combos of hands that can beat you (2 combos of 45s, 2 combos of A4s, 1 combo of 44, 3 combos of 33.. maybe should include some other stuff, but also A4s folds sometimes)?

This is a ridiculously easy 3-bet, against a good player or a random.

Re: $300 AA I suck deepstacked
 

No, i wasn't at all worried about him having a better hand. I just thought he'd probably fold most of his mediumish hands if i 3ball flop, but it seems like i'm way off in that regard. I'm not sure why i didnt shove turn. I def played this hand terribly. out of 10 i'd give myself a 2 maybe 3