Going to war with KK preflop
 

Playing $6.50 or $12 turbos on Full Tilt, could you ever fold KK pf in the first round without a read? If so, under what circumstances? If not, have you ever had a read strong enough to lay down such a monstrosity?

I got stacked with KK twice last night in the first round, all in pre-flop both times, once against AA and once against AKs. Both times I opened in EP for ~3BB, was roughly pot raised by the button, potted back to around 750, then called his all in with 3:1 odds. Trying to avoid this situation is impossible/-ev right?

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

Your sample size (2 hands) is obviously way too small. Don't be results oriented. In low stakes turbo SNGs KK is almost never a fold at level 1 IMO.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

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Playing $6.50 or $12 turbos on Full Tilt, could you ever fold KK pf in the first round without a read?

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no. never.



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If so, under what circumstances? If not, have you ever had a read strong enough to lay down such a monstrosity?

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not in a sit and go.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

Be happy to get it in every time..They love to do this with JJ+,AQ+ (sometimes wider)
Post some hands, and don`t forget stats/reads

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

I understand my sample size is way too small to draw conclusions (I've also obviously left out numerous hands where I stacked QQ with my KK preflop). I just wanted to get some opinions on my whether my current thinking (get it all in every single time) is the right thing to do.

Thanks as usual for the advice.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

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In low stakes turbo SNGs KK is never a fold at level 1 IMO.

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fyp

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

the only time i could get away from this had pre flop is if I had a 100% positive read on the other player that they had aces. which will not happen. Pf if he just has A-anything, he is dead to 3 outs. i just cant see folding here ever. later rounds maybe, post flop you could get away but pre-flop,IMO,youre ahead almost always

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

Folding KK preflop anytime (except extraordinary bubble situations) in these low level sngs is very bad.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Playing $6.50 or $12 turbos on Full Tilt, could you ever fold KK pf in the first round without a read?

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Never!

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Both times I opened in EP for ~3BB,

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Raise 5-6BB in the early stages. Too many caller.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

I just don't fold KK preflop online. Ever.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

KK=the nuts

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

I do not fold them in a box.
I do not fold them with a fox.
I do not fold them in a house.
I do not fold them with a mouse.
I do not fold them here or there.
I do not fold them anywhere.
I do not fold KK preflop.
I do not fold them, Sam-I-am.

btw-thats true at any level. I have never folded KK preflop in an sng. I have almost never folded QQ against one opponent.

Steve

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

A slight hi-jack of the thread, then how many players should be all-in in front of you before you would fold KK preflop, 2-3-4 or does it not matter ?

An example from memory I played a 3.4$ sng, hand 1. Utg raised 3-4 bb, mp called, I raised with KK. Utg went all-in, mp called, Hero ?

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

I'd fold multi way, such as raise, reraise all in, call all in, call all in. I'd muck the KK. I've done it in the past, and someone always shows AA in that situation.

Versus one opponent putting me all in, I don't fold KK unless there was some super weird bubble situation.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
A slight hi-jack of the thread, then how many players should be all-in in front of you before you would fold KK preflop, 2-3-4 or does it not matter ?

An example from memory I played a 3.4$ sng, hand 1. Utg raised 3-4 bb, mp called, I raised with KK. Utg went all-in, mp called, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cant hit CALL fast enough.

One thing that swings it is that "correct" late SNG strategy can really take advantage of a big stack.
OK there is an increased chance that you will see AA here but just as often AK & QQ or AQ & TT (and worse at 3.40)

Call and triple up with 2 less players and you have max pwning potential in the bank.
Call and lose to AA - Meh, fire up another.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

I don't even fold QQ in 27's.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

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In low stakes turbo SNGs KK is Never a fold at level 1 IMO.

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Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

you need a bigger raise preflop like 4-5 BB than just call the all in or go all in yourself

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

This thread got really bad after AMT posted.

Please don't raise more because you "get too many callers at 3x" and no, not every time 4 peeps are all-in will somebody show AA.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

always be shoving with QQ+.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

every time i shove with kk, the other guy has [censored] AA. I've been folding it lately.

<font color="white"> Always get KK in preflop d00de </font>

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
every time i shove with kk, the other guy has [censored] AA. I've been folding it lately.

<font color="white"> Always get KK in preflop d00de </font>

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you almost tricked me into berating you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

Lately aces and kings have hated me. But its tough to lay down big pairs early without reads. Especially since early in the smaller buyins ppl push with some crazy stuff. And yes when u get those kind of odds with that hand pf u almost always need to call unless in a few extreme situations. Let the cowboys ride!

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

Since no one seemed to mention this that I've seen, KK against AK all in preflop is an excellent situation, so you shouldn't be worried about that. There is also nothing you can do about being against AA, just get it in every time.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

I usually fold KK preflop 2-3 times a session. Sometimes I fold because I think they have AA and sometimes I'm pretty sure I'm ahead but just don't want to gambolllllolololol so I fold because I think I can find a better spot. Occasionally I will play sessions where I am in the mood to go to WAR, in which case I don't fold KK preflop.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I usually fold KK preflop 2-3 times a session. Sometimes I fold because I think they have AA and sometimes I'm pretty sure I'm ahead but just don't want to gambolllllolololol so I fold because I think I can find a better spot. Occasionally I will play sessions where I am in the mood to go to WAR, in which case I don't fold KK preflop.

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Seems like you would have to hold KK a ton of times every day to fold it 2-3 times a day.

Its like 4% time your KK will run into AA?

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I usually fold KK preflop 2-3 times a session. Sometimes I fold because I think they have AA and sometimes I'm pretty sure I'm ahead but just don't want to gambolllllolololol so I fold because I think I can find a better spot. Occasionally I will play sessions where I am in the mood to go to WAR, in which case I don't fold KK preflop.

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No way! You are the guy that is running the snginternetsite and are playing big stakes so I have to believe you! From now on I have to fold KK if raised also! And I have always believed KK is a nice hand!

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually fold KK preflop 2-3 times a session. Sometimes I fold because I think they have AA and sometimes I'm pretty sure I'm ahead but just don't want to gambolllllolololol so I fold because I think I can find a better spot. Occasionally I will play sessions where I am in the mood to go to WAR, in which case I don't fold KK preflop.

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No way! You are the guy that is running the snginternetsite and are playing big stakes so I have to believe you! From now on I have to fold KK if raised also! And I have always believed KK is a nice hand!

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lol.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually fold KK preflop 2-3 times a session. Sometimes I fold because I think they have AA and sometimes I'm pretty sure I'm ahead but just don't want to gambolllllolololol so I fold because I think I can find a better spot. Occasionally I will play sessions where I am in the mood to go to WAR, in which case I don't fold KK preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way! You are the guy that is running the snginternetsite and are playing big stakes so I have to believe you! From now on I have to fold KK if raised also! And I have always believed KK is a nice hand!

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lol.

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lol good stuff

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually fold KK preflop 2-3 times a session. Sometimes I fold because I think they have AA and sometimes I'm pretty sure I'm ahead but just don't want to gambolllllolololol so I fold because I think I can find a better spot. Occasionally I will play sessions where I am in the mood to go to WAR, in which case I don't fold KK preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way! You are the guy that is running the snginternetsite and are playing big stakes so I have to believe you! From now on I have to fold KK if raised also! And I have always believed KK is a nice hand!

[/ QUOTE ]


lol.

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lol good stuff

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Hes Bigjoe..hes clearly serious and since he is better than us we really need to follow his advice. Fold KK 2-3 times randomly each session and profitttttttttt.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

Counter-Example to all the people who said they would never fold KK in a sng.
You are in a 1k sng on stars. 4 player left. BB 600
CHip-Stacks
Hero 6749
SB 6749
UTG 1
BTN 1

You are in the BB w KK. SB pushes. You all call?

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Counter-Example to all the people who said they would never fold KK in a sng.
You are in a 1k sng on stars. 4 player left. BB 600
CHip-Stacks
Hero 6749
SB 6749
UTG 1
BTN 1

You are in the BB w KK. SB pushes. You all call?

[/ QUOTE ]

NIT!

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do not fold them in a box.
I do not fold them with a fox.
I do not fold them in a house.
I do not fold them with a mouse.
I do not fold them here or there.
I do not fold them anywhere.
I do not fold KK preflop.
I do not fold them, Sam-I-am.

btw-thats true at any level. I have never folded KK preflop in an sng. I have almost never folded QQ against one opponent.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

OP print this out and tape it to your monitor

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Counter-Example to all the people who said they would never fold KK in a sng.
You are in a 1k sng on stars. 4 player left. BB 600
CHip-Stacks
Hero 6749
SB 6749
UTG 1
BTN 1

You are in the BB w KK. SB pushes. You all call?

[/ QUOTE ]

of course i call, you really gonna let someone pull that kinda crap.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

there's an ante, right? insta call

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

it wouldn't matter. when you play against the same people all day long, you have to let them know there are certain things they cant do. If I'm the big stack on the bubble and and second stack shoves into me with a tiny stack at the table I will often call with garbage. It isn't optimal, but I can get into the money generally even if I lose, and after people see me call for 80% of my chips with 85o they dont mess with my bigstack unless they want a call. they rarely want a call in that situation. Same thing with a smaller raise. If i have the table covered, and 2nd stack tries to 3x raise past me, I will ussually shove. Then they dont do that anymore.

all that costs me a few in the moneys, but it allows me to soak up ALL the chips on the bubble the rest of the time. when you go itm with 70 or 80% of the chips, you get 1st alot more.

it's also fun, and pisses people off.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

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it's also fun, and pisses people off.

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please dont show fluorescenthippo this thread....but QFT

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

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Its like 4% time your KK will run into AA?

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Forgot which book says it but I think it is closer to 1 in 10 or 10% of the time. It was a 2+2 book.

In the smaller tournies I find enough people that want to call all ins with AQs and TT so most the time if I get AA or KK early I just push and I bet a little around half the time I get a call. When you double up then it is your tourny to win. I realize this is probably not the right play but I am +EV on it so far.

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Counter-Example to all the people who said they would never fold KK in a sng.
You are in a 1k sng on stars. 4 player left. BB 600
CHip-Stacks
Hero 6749
SB 6749
UTG 1
BTN 1

You are in the BB w KK. SB pushes. You all call?

[/ QUOTE ]

yep

Re: Going to war with KK preflop
 

In my experience at lv 4 onwards utg or utg limp, lp raise to 350, limper 3 bet almost always means KK or AA assuming limper is reasonably solid. I still would lay down KK, but I have laid down QQ in similar circumstances in the past.