66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

HJ is 44.4/28.9/1.33, CO is 42.6/21.3/1.8, both are spewy and bad.

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $25/$50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Anyone want to talk me into capping or folding?

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9.6SB, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.

This is why I like calling, I manage to fold out HJ.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.8BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

A lot of the time, Villain is going to have an A here. But these LAGs are the type to barrel KQ when they don't. Anyone want to bet/fold? Bet/call? Check/fold?

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8.8BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Um, I still beat KQ. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Anyone want to check/fold?

Final pot: 10.8BB

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

Preflop: I would fold.

Flop: Standard check/raise

Turn: Standard check/call for me for the reasons youve stated.

River: Standard check/call again for me vs this type of opponent.

So I think you played postflop well. I still think folding preflop is better than calling but I have no way of proving that.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

I guess preflop is fine if both players are really bad and spewy. Against good players your implieds are not that great if you hit a set, because coldcalling from bb and going crazy on a ragged board is captain obvious...

but i'm not sure if i would call a river bet, villain must be really bad to barrel with nothing. and as you said, you really only beat KQs here.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I think you played postflop well. I still think folding preflop is better than calling but I have no way of proving that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the post-flop line is correct.

Pre-flop is close, so there's no rule there, but I would lean to a fold unless I was likely to score big when I flop well or, as happened, I believe I have a good chance of getting it HU on flop.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

This is exactly how I would play it. I understand some people want to fold preflop. I just can't. These people are horrible, how can I be expected to let go of a pair of sixes? Flop is perfect. Donking and getting raised by the first pfr can just open up a 3bet by the 3bettor. c/r may get someone out. River sucks, but the villain is still retarded and we still have a pair.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

I thought about PF over lunch and I can really see an argument for a fold (this is coming from a guy who last folded his BB in '05).

Basically I'm going to convince myself to call down here pretty much every time regardless of the board texture. I'm going to be c/r'ing a lot flops and putting in a lot of "i don't know" money.

That being said, that's what I do. And I do it a lot. If I'm sitting there and don't know much but these guys are laggy/bad then I'll play this hand the same. I'll call the river this time and try and see if he fires 3-barrels at any other point or if i feel he is catching on to my play, at which point I think this river is an easy fold.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

who were these monkeys?

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

ALso - I cap 88 here.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

i dunno about this... i think folding pflop is probably marginally better. who were the opponents

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

This is one of those silly questions that more or less amounts to "hey guys, I was playing internet poker and this happened, what do you think my opponent was doing?" You know how to solve the hand mathematically, if you have no idea what your the guy was doing then tough nuts, guess and move on [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

176 games 0.005 secs 35,200 games/sec

Board: 2d 3d 8h Ac Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.420% 26.14% 00.28% 46 0.50 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 73.580% 73.30% 00.28% 129 0.50 { 55+, A6s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, A9o+, KTo+, QJo }

With a random stove with a big range he needs to be bluffing about 40% of the time that he has nothing.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

Check/calling the turn is really bad. Calling the river is awful.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

Why not bet/fold the turn? Do you think you'll see a bluff-raise a lot there?

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

just cap pf im pretty sure ur equity is fine

the looser they are the more likely they are to have a crappy six outer they'll fold on the flop (altho maybe nothing's folding on this exact flop) if u cap and lead.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why not bet/fold the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depending on the opponent this might well be the best line.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

HJ is MAHHERZ 46.09/31.74/1.81 over 230 hands 5.2 handed.
CO is KIMBOLA 43.94/22.73/1.64 over 132 hands 5.6 handed.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I like calling, I manage to fold out HJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is backwards.

Good relative position is sometimes worth preserving by just calling instead of raising. It's highly to your advantage to act last on the flop bet. If you flop big you can trap the opponents. With a questionable hand you can judge your opponents interest and when you need to draw you'll know the price and the size of the field.

Bad relative position such as you have on this hand is to be avoided when possible. Being the first person to act on a flop bet is usually the worst possible situation.

Your bad relative position favors raising with good hands and folding with questionable hands. I'm not saying you should never call or even that this was a bad call. But the calling range should be a lot wider on both sides when the initiative is going to be on your left. Naturally I'm assuming the opposing hand ranges are the same in each case.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Um, I still beat KQ. Anyone want to check/fold?


[/ QUOTE ]

since HJ is raising almost 30% preflop he could be 3bet by small pair, KT and QT and some random hands... with these hands he could think: "ok, gotta call flopcheckraise, I got overs/pair... he checks turn, ok, lets bluff.... river, he is still with me, I got nothing, lets bet again!".

I would normally play it as our poster. Betfold turn is an option if guy got aggressionfactor like below 2 on turn.

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

Normally I'd fold pre, but I like the call if you think you have a large edge on them post-flop, which I'm guessing is the case

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I think you played postflop well. I still think folding preflop is better than calling but I have no way of proving that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the post-flop line is correct.

Pre-flop is close, so there's no rule there, but I would lean to a fold unless I was likely to score big when I flop well or, as happened, I believe I have a good chance of getting it HU on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i aint sure about post flop. maybe it depends on how bad they are. his pfr is reasonable, and we are calling down praying to beat kq (or perhaps q10 or k10)?

Re: 66 in big blind versus a couple LAGs
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of those silly questions that more or less amounts to "hey guys, I was playing internet poker and this happened, what do you think my opponent was doing?" You know how to solve the hand mathematically, if you have no idea what your the guy was doing then tough nuts, guess and move on [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

176 games 0.005 secs 35,200 games/sec

Board: 2d 3d 8h Ac Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.420% 26.14% 00.28% 46 0.50 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 73.580% 73.30% 00.28% 129 0.50 { 55+, A6s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, A9o+, KTo+, QJo }

With a random stove with a big range he needs to be bluffing about 40% of the time that he has nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey bro- enjoyed the hu video w/ stox. how do you get the 40%?