Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

This is an extremely difficult post for me to write, for several reasons. First of all, I rarely bring anything personal to 2+2 because I have other outlets for this type of conversation, and the forum is better for me as a casual conversation circle, not to mention focused poker strategy. Another reason is that it’s never been comfortable for me to get into personal/emotional stuff online – I’m generally a level-headed, often cynical-sounding moderator-type whose function has been to respond to, give advice on, and sometimes joke about threads like this… not start them.

But I think the members of EDF and 2+2 in general might be valuable in this situation because it’s specifically about a culture that many of you guys belong to and about which I don’t know a whole lot. More so, my role in this drama takes a big backseat – I’m just a supporting player and that makes me feel fairly helpless. All right, enough intro; this post is going to be long enough as it is.

I’m a white American Jew with a Chinese girlfriend. We’ve not been dating all that long yet, but it’s progressed far enough and fast enough that we think about the future beyond next weekend. We can talk about it because we’re definitely into each other. She was born in Shanghai to very strict, traditional Chinese parents, and moved to Los Angeles when she was 11. Now she’s fairly Americanized, speaks near-perfect English, and for the most part lives like any typical L.A. valley girl. She turned 27 a month ago.

Her parents aren’t just traditional – they are zealots. Well, her mother is. She’s a hardcore Catholic, goes to church all the time, and pretty much preaches every absolute fundamental cult-like belief you can think of. She makes Mel Gibson’s dad look like Woody Allen. Her father isn’t really too active with the family; he’s older (actually 81, closer to being like a grandfather than a dad; the reasons for him having my girlfriend at such an advanced age are another story I won’t get into), and he doesn’t really pay much attention to his wife and daughter.

So therefore Mom wants her daughter to marry a Catholic guy. And he’d better be Chinese too. But my girlfriend (I’ll call her “May” from here on in) isn’t interested in those ranges. She enjoys dating outside her culture – and is also not a fan of the Catholic church anymore, mostly since she reached the age of reason – and had the independence to pursue a relationship with me. Clearly if her mother knew May was dating a white Jewish guy (I’m not even religious at all; just Jewish by heritage), she would have a heart attack. But me, I’m just small potatoes compared to the real issue at hand now, and it’s a whopper.

Because of a few failed relationships May has had over the past few years, mom has decided that she’s a better person to determine May’s romantic future than May is. Enter Boss, a 50-year old millionaire who has befriended May’s family. He has paid for a cousin’s tuition. He has provided money and gifts for the parents and May’s grandmother. He’s an old rich man looking for a trophy wife. Perfect, in mom’s eyes, because now she has a great idea – marry her daughter off to this dude. Well, and by “marry her off” I mean prostitute her.

Of course, this terrifies May. She has no intention of being some trophy wife for sale, for basically being turned into a whore for some old loser. But she also has brainwashed in her the deeply steeped Chinese tradition of filial piety – an absolute devotion to her parents. In May’s mind, the daughter must always honor and obey her parents until the day they die. Even if your mom is a lunatic religious nut who wants to prostitute you? Sell you to the highest bidder? Yes, even then.

Even worse, mom decided that May should be married by the time she is 28. That’s 11 months away. So what does she do? Well, without really bothering to consult her daughter, she’s talked with the Boss’s mother about arranging the marriage. (May calls him “Boss” because she feels like she would be working for him). Naturally, this has put May into a panic – as it would any sane person who just discovered her family was whoring her out. She has never told the Boss she intends to marry him, but nevertheless since he got the okay from Mom, he bought a $150,000 ring that he hasn’t given to her yet. I mean I can’t blame the guy; May is an absolute knockout – not only hot, but she’s smart, lively, sharp and funny. But she likes me.

Now how do I fit into this? I really don’t; I mean, in some respects her relationship with me (obviously hidden to the family – something she’s been able to do despite spending 3-4 nights a week sleeping at my place for the past month) has put the pressure of this supposed arranged marriage to the forefront… without me, she has nothing to balance it out and would have nothing to stop her from sadly walking down the dark depths of fate to one of the most miserable existences I can imagine: being a prisoner to a passionless marriage, alone, and misunderstood by everyone who pretends to know her. But even if I wasn’t around, she still faces this struggle.

When I first heard this, I was like – what? This isn’t the 16th century. Grow some stones and tell mom to [censored] off. Welcome to 2007. Live your life. If May was some crazy chick like her mom, she wouldn’t even be worried. But she’s a thinking, feeling, reasonable woman and it’s scaring the crap out of her. If she refuses this marriage, she essentially abandons the family – she takes away all the gifts the Boss has given them. She is being “selfish” by only looking out for her own happiness and not that of her relatives. She insults two families at once. She’s a “bad person.” At least, she is all of these things in her mother’s eyes. And that guilt – thanks to Catholicism, ahh Catholicism – has been dutifully passed on to May. Entrenched. For 27 years.

That pretty much sums up the situation. I have a girlfriend who can’t sit her mom down and say, “Mom, you’re making me feel like a prostitute” because of her Chinese traditions. Yet on the other hand, I have a girlfriend who doesn’t want to be whored out to a wealthy old man. She doesn’t know what to do. And I don’t think I can help much. It isn’t even about me – it’s about her. Now if I didn’t care about her that much, and she was just a fling and a hot piece of tail, I’d say “wow baby that sucks, it’s been fun but I don’t think this has much of a future – good luck with your pimp mom.” But I do care about her. I’ve led a life of drama-free, innocuous, absolutely uneventful relationships for years… and this one is good enough for me to fight for or whatever it is. So I’m stuck in a spot where I want her to be happy… I want her to be free of this burden… and yet I can’t think of anything to say to her or anything to do.

So I guess I pose a question to EDF: for those of you who are Chinese, or who are familiar with Chinese families, is this really happening today? Are American families still arranging marriages like this, and are children really wired to obey their parents, even if those orders are completely abasing and destructive? Or did I just find the one completely wacked far-right version? It’s the kind of dilemma that’s making me lose sleep at night, simply because sometimes May cries herself to sleep thinking about the fate that lies ahead. She tries to talk herself into believing that if she does this, it would be fine – she would never feel “good again” (i.e. love, happiness, etc.) but she would also never face feeling bad again (heartbreak, abandonment, etc.). But just as she tries to convince herself that it might not be that bad, she comes to her senses and realizes that it would be that bad. Not only would she lose me, she would lose her freedom, her sense of self, and her future. Man, that makes me feel so sad for this girl.

I know it sounds like some melodramatic movie – it’s Romeo + Juliet meets Farewell My Concubine or something. How ridiculous. I agree, and I’ve never faced anything remotely this [censored] up and weird. It’s almost surreal. And I know some of you may be thinking “give it up, dude, she’s nuts, her family is nuts, and you need to find someone else.” I understand that sentiment, but unfortunately that doesn’t help because a) I don’t really want to leave her; we have too good a time together… and b) that wouldn’t solve her situation at all. The question isn’t whether or not I should stick with her – that’s beside the point. It’s how can I, if possible, help to prevent the imprisonment and selling out of a woman who doesn’t deserve to be abused by her family like this. She tells me she wants to break free, but she doesn’t have the courage to do it. And I’m the only person she has confided in about this.

I run bad at falling for women without serious family issues, I guess. Lil’ help?

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

The way I see it you have two options. 1. declare your intentions for this girl and step up and be her man, or 2. Allow May to deal with it how she sees fit. Don't get too attached until she's made her decision.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

FWIW, I never thought "give it up, blah nuts blah someone else" while reading the post.

I guess I can't just can't understand that someone would ever actually go through with the marriage, though, in her spot, wow. If it were me I would obviously feel anguish, but if I hadn't figured a better way out by then, then at the 11th hour, just gotta go ahead and disappoint the mother + guy + tradition and too bad for them but maybe just maybe it takes something this horrible to get someone to leave behind that traditional subservience (and sure, we can't understand how bad it would be for a woman, especially from a different culture, but yeah) and in the end that would be a good thing?

Okay, maybe not, but it's a good thing you wrote this and I'm sure someone will show up with good counsel and discussion.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I wish I had a better serious answer for you, but all I can think of is.

vegas+drinks+drivethru chapel = her problem solved

it may create other problems, yes, but should solve that specific one.....

Good luck ever getting accepted by the rest of the family though. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

Get her a good therapist.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

the way I see it, the ball is in May's court. She has to decide if she's going to let Mom run the show or not and make her choices accordingly, traditions and culture be damned. If she can't make this choice now at 27, then it's Forrest Gump time for you.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

This is not normal for most chinese families. and fwiw girls that have crazy mothers usually have a lot of crazy passed onto them. women in traditional asian cultures are supposed to be taken care of. thats what the crazy mother is trying to do. most likely, the girl knows that her mom is doing what she thinks is best for her. this makes it difficult to just tell her to f off.

in your post, you make it sound like the mom is crazy and the daughter is reasonable. i assure you that the daughter is less sane than you think.

gl with the problem.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I've been dating a Korean girl for 3 years and have been living in Asia for over around 5 years (I'm from UK). I've had the same issues. My previous gf had her own internet mall with 15 employees turing over $200,000 per month and she was 28 years old, yet she had to hide our relationship from her parents. SHe dated an Austrailian guy previously and when her father found out he threw himself out the window. (luckily, they live on the 2nd floor).

My new gf's mother took around 18 months to get used to the idea that she might not marry a Korean. Things are still pretty awkward and I will never fully be accepted. She's 100% more liberal than other Korean parents, yet still 100% more unreasonable than western ones, even though (luckily) I know she tries her best to accept me.

The parent thing is worse here than in China and I'm afraid there's not much you can do. I still don't understand how a parent can choose where, how, what, when and with whom their 28 year old (albeit unmarried) children live their lives. Now, I just try and accept it.

I've been on dates together with girl's older brother ([censored]-blocker isn't a strong enough term) and had gf's calls screened by family member. Most dating situations end because of family objections.

I woudl suggest you try to curry favour and indroduce yourself to her parents. Normal sensible behaviour will have to be thrown out of the window, and EVERYTHING you do, and say will effectively need to be choreographed [sic] bey her to her customs. Never underestimate the power of holding the glass of water incorrectly!

Your girl's folkes sound especially unreasonable and it looks like she needs to make a choice between cultures and decide what path will make her happy.

good luck

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

random thought: First half of story sort of reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where George converts to Latvian Orthadox so that he could date this girl, funny episode.. Frank and Estelle weren't pleased!

Anyway, I agree with others in that May has to step up here and sort of break free from mom's shackles and their family's old traditions... Simply put, at 27 she's her own person and she should do what she wants..

With Mom i'd just try to let May rationalize with her, and if that doesn't work then do what you guys want to do.. be that eloping or otherwise, whatever's in your best interest.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

It's not may that's being selfish by denying her mothers wishes, it's her mother that's being selfish by ignoring her daughters right to live her own life.

It is a very difficult situation, and very precarious. You need to be very careful what you say to her about it.

If it were me, I'd probably do something stupid like go and talk to 'Boss' and explain the situation to him and ask him first to back off, then if met with resistance, tell him to back the [censored] off. Of course, I dont reccomend that, but take it for what its worth.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

Especially in the context of your OOT post, I don't see how this relationship is likely to last long term. It already sounds like she has certain drama queen tendencies (from the OOT thread) - couple that in with a situation where you're the instrument of a profound schism with her family and I see nothing but bad. Will she be resentful if she chooses you over them? Can she ultimately be happy if the break seems permanent (which is more likely with you in the picture)? While I'm not saying you need to break it off now, I think it's a little foolish to expect long-term stability from this, if that's what you think you might be after. EDIT: Yes, she has a problem with her family regardless of your presence. I'm just saying that even though it's not your fault, it seems likely to me that she might start viewing it that way long term, as you'll become part of the problem if her family finds out about you.


I dated a Chinese girl for a few months with similar levels of secrecy; I would be in no hurry to do it again. (Admittedly this was years ago and marriage didn't enter into any equations at all.)

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is not normal for most chinese families and absolutely insane for someone from a modern city like Shanghai .

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Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I think I'm in a unique position to comment on this, being from an Asian-American (and Catholic) family:

To a large extent, yes, many Asian-American parents, religious or not, are controlling and strict regarding any possible spouses of their children.

I really don't think it has to do with your girlfriend having had failed relationships necessarily. Because obviously this 50 year old man is a really really attractive candidate for son-in-law in her mom's eyes, and the practically-arranged marriage (which I've never personally heard of before) is her mom's way of strongly indicating this preference. FWIW I don't think this means May has absolutely no choice in the matter, it just shows her mom's extreme desire for her to marry this guy.

In Mom's eyes, she knows her daughter hasn't agreed to it, she knows her daughter is pretty unhappy with it. I think, though, you are overblowing the golddigging aspect of it. This guy is culturally similar, takes care of her family, and all this means the mom is obviously thinking about her own well-being, as is her prerogative, but I think you are underestimating how much of it is because the Mom probably feels the daughter will truly be happy with this guy.

And it seems likely that her mom is well-aware of the pressure and stress that Boss' monetary gifts put on her daughter's conscience. I'm pretty sure in the view of Mom, it's just another means toward an ideal end; getting her daughter to marry Boss at all costs.

This means you two's (May's and your) line should really be to emphasize how unhappy she will be marrying Boss and how much happier she will be staying with you. The first part means your girlfriend will need to be confident and cool; but I don't see that she neccessarily has to tell her mom that she feels like a "prostitute." Seeing as she wants her parents to be a part of her life always, there's nothing wrong with being a little passive-aggressive at first and telling her mom that she wants to marry someone younger, with more in common with her.

The second part of the line means, yes, you need to tell her parents about you two. I've dated a few Asian-American girls, and you might find it interesting to know that they were initially wary of telling their parents because their parents were Chinese or Protestant and would pre-disapprove of me because I was Korean/Catholic (lol differenceaments). You could probably start by telling the more laid-back dad, and since you guys enjoy what seems to a be great connection, I think it will be easier than you think for May to soften her mom a little bit by revealing some of her genuine feelings about you, and maybe reminding her parents that you guys aren't serious enough to marry (you might have to lie and say "marry ever" here).

Another aspect of her mom's probable thought process you should be aware of is how she feels her daughter cancelling on Boss and having a white boyfriend will appear to her friends, peers, co-workers--practically the general public. I wouldn't underestimate the potential audience an Asian parent imagines regarding matters like these (as well as financial and academic issues). It would be a pretty big blow to the family's image to cancel things with a suitor like that and to essentially "replace" him with you. Since this relationship isn't going to get anywhere without cooperation or at least permissiveness from the parents, you gotta be respectful of this fact and be mindful of her perception of how it will appear to others. Your girlfriend probably has a good grasp on how to smooth things over for her mom personally.

Your ultimate goal is to have a happy, long-term relationship with this girl right? I would really look at your self and your prejudices first: "not a fan of the Catholic church anymore, mostly since she reached the age of reason" "And that guilt – thanks to Catholicism, ahh Catholicism." I don't really know what any of this has to do with Catholicsm, first of all. And, maybe I am thinking a little more long term than you want to, but how do you see yourself things working out in 10 years with this girl, if you guys most likely have differing views on her and her parents' religion?

The sooner you realize these and any other cultural differences are not unreconcilable boundaries and are things you can slowly effect your influence on, the better. You want to win them over persistently, but not alienate them.

Her mom's not evil or backwards, she is just doing whatever it takes to get what she wants for her daughter. You need to do the same, even if it means kissing ass, being constantly respectful, and always being aware of appearances (it will mean all those things).

I hope this helped, good luck man.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

PJ,

I just read your OOT post and your description of your gf physically as well as the way she likes to [censored] with you reminds me of my gf

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I think that had her mother known about you to begin with she wouldn't have tried selling her off to someone else, whether or not she would've approved. The fact that May didn't say anything to begin, or as this situation progressed, or now, should say pretty much all you need.

Either that, or you should get to practicing your Chinese very quickly to impress the family.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

PJ, if could be worse. try being japanese and going out with a girl whose family went through the rape of nanking.

fwiw, mom is looking out for her daughter and, by extension, herself. she wants chinese, catholic and rich because this presents the best (in her mind) combination for her daughter, and, as a consequence, for her old age.

of the three, i think the most important is the financially stable one. if you can show that you are or will be able to take care of her daughter, things will be better (not necessarily great, just better). at first, though, you're going to have to go through some screaming matches (you won't be in them, it'll be her and her mother, but she'll probably come to you in tears more than once.

good luck

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

Joker,

I think you're screwed. These cultural boundaries are probably irreconcilable IMO, despite what fmxda thinks. The only way you have a chance is if your girlfriend confronts her mother and breaks the truth to her about how she doesn't want to marry Boss. Your name (or even the fact of your existence) probably shouldn't even enter the picture at this early stage. May has to somehow convince her mother to butt out of her love life. Given your descriptions of her mother (and May) I doubt this will happen (especially if she says she is dating some random white guy). My wife is from a very traditional Chinese family (thankfully not Catholic) and we had problems despite the fact that I am Chinese. (Being from the U.S. was a definite black mark for her family, which is from Indonesia/Singapore.) She is still very attached to her family as well, and her parents are a bit more meddlesome than most. (Nothing like your problem, of course.)

IF somehow May wins this battle with her mother and then IF somehow she is not disowned or something similar then IF somehow her super-traditional/crazy mother is convinced to accept you, the white Jewish dude from L.A., then maybe you have a chance assuming your relationship hasn't been destroyed through this traumatic process. You can probably tell why I am pessimistic about all this. I wish you good luck, seriously. I wouldn't recommend getting your hopes up though. If you make it that far, fxmda's advice about kissing up to the parents, always being available to help, always being respectful, etc. applies.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I don't have much to add other than that I would be on complete life-tilt if I were in your shoes. Good luck with it.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

PJ,

I'm an unselfish guy, but the answer here is pretty simple (based on this and other OOT posts you've made about this girl).

(warning, I'm going to be mean)

She seems unstable or crazy. Her family is way out of touch with their daughters needs. This situation is going to get far worse before it gets better. Get out now, you're sucked in too deep already, and I'm 99% sure this girl is not worth your mental anguish. You are lacking the perspective needed to take the hard and correct path here, it's easier for you mentally to try to be the hero for this near stranger. in this situation, it's not worth it.

good luck.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

pj, you didnt say you that you love this girl in your post. Is she 'the one' ?

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

joker,

If you didn't have this problem, would you marry the girl tomorrow? If not, walk away now. If so, then pray like hell that she has the courage to stand up to your mother. Otherwise, run away.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

marry her.

that should solve it, no?

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

There's nothing EDF can help you with on this one. Your girlfriend just needs to care about her own damned life and stand up to her mother. I can't see how you could be attracted to a girl that could not do that in this situation.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I'm having trouble understanding what Catholicism has to do with any of this.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The question isn’t whether or not I should stick with her – that’s beside the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

This really hits the nail on the head because, all things considered, you and she don't have a viable relationship.

Sadly, you can't really do much to help her out either. If anything, you need to convince her to stand up to her mother. Good luck.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I dated a Vietnamese girl for 3 years basically hidden from her parents. It was easy because we were in college fairly far from them.

She is mind [censored]. Her parents have very old fashioned values and think she is worthless whore for having boyfriends who don't intend to marry her (or at least would if they knew about it). As far as the arranged marriage thing the bottom line is they can't make her do it. If she is even considering marrying the guy merely to please her parents, then I would suggest you break it off for your own well being. Otherwise just support her through the deep pain and possible other consequences of disobeying them.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having trouble understanding what Catholicism has to do with any of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. Catholicism doesn't go for this arranged marriage bs.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm having trouble understanding what Catholicism has to do with any of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. Catholicism doesn't go for this arranged marriage bs.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is not Catholic, and she is presumably having sex with him before marriage. Two large points against their relationship in the eyes of her parents if they were to know.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I read the whole thing and I understand you really care but I didn't see anywhere you saying that you love her. The situation is ridiculous for her in every way but what you really want or should do I think depends a lot on that.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

now this is a grad-school level girl problem!

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

Joker,
Your girl may be 27, but she still has a lot of growing up to do. I don't see this relationship working even if you somehow win this battle. Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

On a lighter note, you could always have "Boss" buy you out. Profit.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

From what you wrote, there is nothing you personally can do. I think your only hope is to get her with a therapist who understands these issues. The only way for this to come to a resolution that you want is for her to overcome these deep seated psychological pressures.

I would do this quickly, it's going to take some time for her to work through this, if she can work through it at all.

In the end, though, we're responsible for our own choices. Even though her choices are heavily influenced by her background, she is still capable of making choices. And if she choices the life you described that is her burden and I would believe that anyone capable of putting themselves in that situation wouldn't make that good of a partner for me.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having trouble understanding what Catholicism has to do with any of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You don't see how someone who is described as EXTREMELY religious might be even more inclined to want someone "appropriate" for her daughter and might not have the most flexible viewpoints? Plus, Joker is Jewish and engages in pre-marital sin (horrors!), which as was previously mentioned are two more strikes against him.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG) *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by El Diablo

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm having trouble understanding what Catholicism has to do with any of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You don't see how someone who is described as EXTREMELY religious might be even more inclined to want someone "appropriate" for her daughter and might not have the most flexible viewpoints? Plus, Joker is Jewish and engages in pre-marital sin (horrors!), which as was previously mentioned are two more strikes against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

she could be just as fanatical about her faith and just as illogical about the situation if she was a member of dozens of other churches.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

PJ,

The situation is actually quite simple and I think you know that. The only questions that need to be answered are:
1) Is your girlfriend capable of saying no to her parents about the arranged marriage?
2) And even if she is capable of doing that, would she ever have the courage to tell them she will be marrying a white atheist of Jewish ancestry?

If the answer to either of those questions is no, then obviously you are wasting your time with this chick and staying with her any longer will only increase the pain. The only thing you can really do is figure out how long you are willing to wait for her to answer those questions. Personally, I think that anyone who would even consider for a minute accepting an arranged marriage is crazy and not worth my time. And I bet thats how the rational person inside of you feels as well.

Don't worry about it too much. There are like over 500 million Chinese females out there and I bet a lot of them like the white kosher sausage.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

Wow dude mixing traditional Chinese custom w/ Catholicism=insanity. Cant imagine imagine what the family would think about her dating a jewish poker player. If you have any future w/ her the family will probably have to be out of the picture. So this little episode might work out better for you, because to have any kind of normal life she will either have to become estranged from her parents or her mom will have to change her mind about her cultural beliefs(never gonna happen). So I know you dont want to hear this, but it will save you alot of time and hurt to find out her decision now rather than 2 years down the road when her mother forbids her from seeing you. Also, you cant really pressure her in this situation w/o risking possible resentment, but she needs to understand that her mother is being extremely hypocritical to her own religous beleifs. Dont think Catholicism advocates selling ones daughter off to horny rich guys. Not sure what Chinese custom is in this area, but the simple fact is that she seems to want to cherry pick between several competing cultural beliefs. I mean honestly-a traditional-Chinese-Catholic-living in America? Sorry, but you dont get to force this incoherent world-view on anybody.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

pj,

How serious are you about this girl? If she didn't have these crazy family issues, would you think this a likely long-term relationship?

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
pj,

How serious are you about this girl? If she didn't have these crazy family issues, would you think this a likely long-term relationship?

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Yes. I'm not ready to get married yet (ideally I'd like to live with her for a year and make sure everything's as compatible then as it is now), but I'm more serious about her than anyone I've been with in a while. I'm picky about girls, and tend to get bored with them or find flaws early on, and if this were just a chick I liked a lot and was great in the sack, I wouldn't have written this post (I still almost didn't write it). I've moved on before and I would have moved on now.

But yeah, I'm falling for this one pretty hard so I'm going to see it through.

To make a poker metaphor out of it (and to be pessimistic/honest), I'd say I'm drawing to about 3 outs on the flop -- I can understand why most people here are recommending I muck it now. But my implied odds here are [censored] huge.

Anyway, responses so far have been great; thanks everyone for giving such a great variety of experiences and opinions from different vantage points.

Re: Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)
 

I like how you're keeping your heads up and not whining like most of the guys would do when encountered this situation, especially this:

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I know it sounds like some melodramatic movie – it’s Romeo + Juliet meets Farewell My Concubine or something.

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And

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To make a poker metaphor out of it (and to be pessimistic/honest), I'd say I'm drawing to about 3 outs on the flop -- I can understand why most people here are recommending I muck it now. But my implied odds here are [censored] huge.

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My dad has always told me to stay away from Shanghainese girls. But then again, May has been completely Americanized and am part of a devout Catholic family. I am in no way shape or form able to give you any advice except to wish you good luck.