TJs button
 

Still struggling with postflop play, so comments pls:)no reads yes, but very loose table, so limper can have anything

Party Poker 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

since initial raisor just checked i raised for info. If reraised, i would fold. plus i was going for free card,and try to represent Q, trying ot make better hands than mine to fold

Turn: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks,UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

took free card

River: (7.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks,UTG+1 checks, Hero ???

so now, do i raise for value on river? the pot is small, and allthough opponents aren't tricky i cant be sure they dont have Q with low kicker

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Re: TJs button
 

Please fold flop.

Rest is fine. Bet river for value.

Re: TJs button
 

i think you should raise pf.

Re: TJs button
 

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Still struggling with postflop play

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You're also struggling a little with preflop play. This is an easy raise on the button for value with position.

Your postflop struggles stem from the inability to evaluate the strength of your hand.

Re: TJs button
 

Correct AW, thats why im posting

Re: TJs button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Correct AW, thats why im posting

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Okay, I'll break it down for you this time...

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since initial raisor just checked i raised for info.

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What info were you looking for? J-high is no good? I think you could have guessed that before you raised.

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plus i was going for free card

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How likely is a free card going to help your situation? What are you drawing to?

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and try to represent Q

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Don't try to represent hands you don't have. Represent a queen when you have a queen and be impressed at how much money you make.

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trying ot make better hands than mine to fold

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I'd rather play a game of making worse hands call by betting my good hands. It's much easier and more profitable.

Re: TJs button
 

Wow im worse than i thought

Re: TJs button
 

We all come to that realization eventually. Multiple times. Don't get discouraged.

Preflop, while some of us would argue to raise suited Broadways for value, since you're clearly still working things out in your game overlimping is fine.

On the flop, you have J-high and only backdoor draws. Your hand officially sucks now. You invested a nickel with a mostly-speculative hand, and your pony crashed through the gate, crapped all over the track and broke its leg. Put it out of its misery and fold. You'll almost never convince five! opponents all to lay down to your aggression, and the odd time you do will never make up for the bets you spew every time it doesn't work.

However, there is some good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico (lol geicrolled), and you also got the free card you were looking for. Remember this, and next time when you're on the button and the flop comes more like Q94, you can raise for that free card with a solid draw and see two cards for one extra SB. That's investing wisely.

Re: TJs button
 

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Wow im worse than i thought

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You should always be thinking this w.r.t. poker. It's your motivation to get better and to keep trying not to make bad plays.

Re: TJs button
 

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so now, do i raise for value on river? the pot is small, and allthough opponents aren't tricky i cant be sure they dont have Q with low kicker


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If either of your two opponents had a Q with a better kicker- that fact that you were last to act on the turn and checked it through- told them that you were worried about being up against a Q. So... the fact that neither of them bet on the river before it got to you, would tell you that you are not up against a set of queens.

Re: TJs button
 

rofl what the [censored]

worst flop play ever

Re: TJs button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow im worse than i thought

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You are clever enough to start discussing your hand in this forum, so dont worry about playing badly. That will change soon. Everybody has to start somewhere.

Personally, I learn best not from the hands that I played well, but from the ones that really hurt my bankroll and when I reconsider my play later.

Re: TJs button
 

Please fold the flop. I don't understand the raise at all.

I also raise preflop (don't hate a limp), and bet the river since you found a way to get there.

Re: TJs button
 

I don't see the question asked, but I'm going to answer it anyway...

Why would anyone raise this pre-flop?

1. Position ... you're going to have great post-flop position. Showing strength pre-flop means in all likelihood they will defer to you. Which is good because you are:
2. Showing strength ... since it's pretty likely they're going to miss the flop as much as you do, they defer to you and your continuation bet has a much better chance of taking the pot. Even if they do call, it may lead to...
3. Free turn card... even if they do call your flop continuation bet, if they're slow-playing a massive hand they're probably thinking 'I'll raise him on the turn'. So if it is checked to you on the turn, voila, a free river! Which is great if you:
4. Make the pot bigger for your draws. If none of the above happen according to plan, it'd be nice if you have odds to call for any draws that you happen to have.

BUT .. when others show strength by betting and all you have are backdoor draws, no high-card strength and no pot-odds, fold.

Re: TJs button
 

[ QUOTE ]
We all come to that realization eventually. Multiple times. Don't get discouraged.

Preflop, while some of us would argue to raise suited Broadways for value, since you're clearly still working things out in your game overlimping is fine.

On the flop, you have J-high and only backdoor draws. Your hand officially sucks now. You invested a nickel with a mostly-speculative hand, and your pony crashed through the gate, crapped all over the track and broke its leg. Put it out of its misery and fold. You'll almost never convince five! opponents all to lay down to your aggression, and the odd time you do will never make up for the bets you spew every time it doesn't work.

However, there is some good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico (lol geicrolled), and you also got the free card you were looking for. Remember this, and next time when you're on the button and the flop comes more like Q94, you can raise for that free card with a solid draw and see two cards for one extra SB. That's investing wisely.

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Marchron, KingOtter and AW.....

Can I just say thanks for replies like this. It's these type of explanations that help the OP, me and loads of others who are trying to feel our way through the (seemingly) endless fog. They're certainly a LOT more constructive, motivating and inspirational than the many one-liners you read on this board. It's so obvious that there are posters that are trying to help others and posters that are just trying to amuse themselves or others.

I have lost count of the number of times I have thought about giving up- but I don't. I keep at it. And it posts like these that make it worthwhile. Cheers.

Re: TJs button
 

I'm glad you found my post about horsecrap and Geico commercials inspiring. I do what I can.

Re: TJs button
 

Tnx all for great replies, plus i got an eskimo rollin on the floor from laughing...that counts something too right.

The fact is that im lost in a hand many times, and most of the times i do try to play by the book (SSHL),and even that i do get cracked A LOT, i atleast know i played(think so) correctly. but from time to time i try something else, and regardless of the result (i know i played wrong) i dont know why. thats where u guys jump in with cool explanations. I mean the book is great, but explaining certain plays is priceless.

Re: TJs button
 

This is probably worth putting in the digest--O WAIT

Re: TJs button
 

I would not raise preflop here, because with two early limpers I honestly think you are at disadvantage equity wise and yo uprosition prob doesn't make up for it. This changes if early limpers are big donkeys. In general in small stakes limit holdem you should not really be focusing about getting better hands to fold (think aaron said same thing).

Re: TJs button
 

In LHE raising suited broadways otb is basically never a significant mistake IMO. Even if you don't have the equity to do it you get to check the flop often enough to make up for it.

Re: TJs button
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would not raise preflop here, because with two early limpers I honestly think you are at disadvantage equity wise and yo uprosition prob doesn't make up for it. This changes if early limpers are big donkeys. In general in small stakes limit holdem you should not really be focusing about getting better hands to fold (think aaron said same thing).

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I don't raise either.

But I would raise with say four limpers or if we had QJs.