How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

BB is 20/12 but has been pretty quiet since we sat at the table. SB is a shortstack fish and would push the flop with any gutshot/pair/draw.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($166)
MP ($388)
Hero ($393.60)
SB ($116.70)
BB ($522.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, SB calls $10, BB calls $8.

Flop: ($36) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $24</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $80</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $104.7</font>, BB calls $80.70, Hero calls $24.70.

Turn: ($350.10) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $276.9 (All-In)...</font>

BB seems to be a somewhat thinking player and I've shown aggression through the whole hand. Any chance T9 or KQ folds here, and combined with the number of draws I can charge, do we like the push?

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

I like it.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

i didnt realize there was a dry sidepot. just take the free card, no way you're ahead of sb and your outs are deifnitely clean so just take the free card. i dont think 2 pair is folding here.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i didnt realize there was a dry sidepot. just take the free card, no way you're ahead of sb and your outs are deifnitely clean so just take the free card. i dont think 2 pair is folding here.

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Read my description of SB, I'm very much ahead of him after his flop push.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

check

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

KQ might fold, T9 is never folding. I don't mind the push, but I'd rather check and go for some value on the river. I feel like I never get called by non monsters against decent players on the turn in these spots.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

Why......

You have decent SD value and a good draw, see the river.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

both plays r solid but id personally would bet after check. and 10 9 could lay it down. if tight player

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

Why not just push the flop? (aren't you allowed to do that after the raise all in by the shortstack)

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why not just push the flop? (aren't you allowed to do that after the raise all in by the shortstack)

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because hero has zero fold equity from BB, i think you should check turn and try to get value on the river

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Why not just push the flop? (aren't you allowed to do that after the raise all in by the shortstack)

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because hero has zero fold equity from BB, i think you should check turn and try to get value on the river

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I may be off guard here but it would seem easier to maximize our own equity by pushing the flop, we have a gutshot straightflush draw with TP to go with it. If we are up against a better flush draw we do not get value from it if the flush does not hit the river (not to mention if it hits). If he has a hand like AK, KQ or T9 we are in a coinflip right now but with worse odds if a brick hits.

Maybe I have assumed something wrong here ?

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

Yea, the more I think about it the more I like a flop push there is no hand he can call with that has us in bad shape. We are either ahead and he has 7 outs or we are behind and have at least 11 outs.

Also the more I think about it the more I dislike the turn push. I know OP says SB is a donk, but it's not like we're ahead of him 100% of the time. So pushing here moves him off all non monsters and we still may lose the pot when SB flips up KQ, KT, K9, T9, QJ or T9. We should be pushing flop, or checking behind turn and going for a vbet on the river.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

shove the flop :s

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

Uhh... HH reading FTW. Why in the world so people think the action has been reopened to hero on the flop? Pushing the flop is impossible.

Turn push seems ok to me, though taking the free card isn't bad either.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

The best play here is probarly to call the first bet and then shove over the fish and BB. Or maybe raise smaller so the betting is reopened by the fish. Then shove over.

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uhh... HH reading FTW. Why in the world so people think the action has been reopened to hero on the flop? Pushing the flop is impossible.


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Thanks for the clarification, that was what I suspected (see my first post). Some poker rooms, that I play, incorrectly allows the betting to be reopened even after an underbet. (The correct rule is that it can only be opened by a player that has not yet acted if I remember correctly)

Re: How\'s this turn push into an empty pot?
 

If there is a good chance the BB is lousy enough to call the push with 87 or an Ace high flush draw (he isn't proper odds), then I like the push.

If he is a solid player, check the turn. We are behind anything else he would consider calling a decent bet with.