Jacks on the river
 

Villain is 45/16/1.8 AF after 90 hands.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero...

Re: Jacks on the river
 

calls

Re: Jacks on the river
 

come this far, gotta call, tho your prob beat

Re: Jacks on the river
 

With a better read you could probably fold to the turn raise. Looks like he was slowplaying here. So tempted to call the river for curiosity's sake but I think it's a fold.

Re: Jacks on the river
 

I think this is a fold. I think you are crushed by either the turn card or the river card, given his turn raise. While he might have raised the turn with AT, I don't see him raising the turn with A8 even if the A is a spade.

Re: Jacks on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
With a better read you could probably fold to the turn raise. Looks like he was slowplaying here. So tempted to call the river for curiosity's sake but I think it's a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your definition of slow play? Not capping the flop? Villain has shown strength almost every chance he has been given. This looks so much like a set or flush draw that I'm likely to be calling down from the turn.

Re: Jacks on the river
 

he has a flush

fold the turn or call the river

Re: Jacks on the river
 

villains flop raise w/ position looks like a free card play.
the decision is to be made on the turn. i fold here giving him credit for a flush.

Re: Jacks on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold the turn or call the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Jacks on the river
 

I remember I never used to fold the turn in these types of situtations. I think against tighter/more predicatble types of opponents you are going to be shwon a flush often enough to fold the turn. Against this type of opponent I probably pay off (though that is a lousy river card for us)

Re: Jacks on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
he has a flush

fold the turn or call the river

[/ QUOTE ]

at what point can you say...

on turn : hmm I think he could possibly do this w/ a T and decide to call down.
on river : crap.. now even a T beats me.

I really do not like the notion that every time you call a turn bet in a situation like this you must call the river. Sometimes the river card changes everything. So just because we called the turn... why does everyone feel obligated that we must also call a river bet. A bet is a bet, and I don't like losing a bet irrespective if it is on the turn or the river.

Now please do not confuse this with calling a bet on the turn (w/ a made hand) and then folding to a blank river.. this is an entirely different situation... think of this hand w/ the river being the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Re: Jacks on the river
 

yeah... i dont think he has AT. if we could make AT and KTs a larger part of his range the above might make sense

from turn action he has a flush or a set like always

but on the river you are too committed to fold to the occasional J9/85s/99 etc

Re: Jacks on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah... i dont think he has AT. if we could make AT and KTs a larger part of his range the above might make sense

from turn action he has a flush or a set like always

but on the river you are too committed to fold to the occasional J9/85s/99 etc

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.. and this hand is not perfect for my question.. think of it in a more general sense.

Re: Jacks on the river
 

i get where your coming from and its a very good point.

but i think we can agree it doesnt quite apply here

Re: Jacks on the river
 

That's a tough river, but he only has to be bluffing or overplaying 99 or AQ, AK, about 1 in 11 to make calling break even. Auto-call based on pot size.

Don't fold for one bet in big pots when you can close the betting and might have the best hand.