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I\'m not known for making big folds...
Villain is semiloose, not too aggressive but not a nit or a rock by any means. Pretty much your standard fullring breakeven player. Original raiser I don't know much about, but since he was telegraphing huge pair I was giving him some rope with the almost-minraise. I'd rather not hear about that part of the hand, unless you think it really matters a lot.
------------------------------ Bodog History for Hand #748399682 Hold'em No Limit ($10.00/$20.00) - 2007-06-06 19:06:39 Table 'Conseco Fieldhouse' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: Kwickfish ($1759.00) Seat 2: Wild Duck ($4493.00) Seat 3: Reinhart ($1460.28) Seat 4: TexasJeff ($2164.00) Seat 5: KiepDoDen06 ($1712.00) Seat 6: Jynnan_Tonnyx ($2088.00) Seat 7: DJ Sensei ($5200.00) Seat 8: coolnbest ($3185.00) Seat 9: pungy ($3326.00) ------------------------------ NEW HAND TexasJeff: posts the small blind $10.00 KiepDoDen06: posts the big blind $20.00 --- DEALING POCKETS DJ Sensei is dealt [5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] Jynnan_Tonnyx: folds DJ Sensei: calls $20.00 coolnbest: folds pungy: calls $20.00 Kwickfish: folds Wild Duck: folds Reinhart: folds TexasJeff: calls $10.00 KiepDoDen06: raises $80.00 to $100.00 DJ Sensei: calls $80.00 pungy: calls $80.00 TexasJeff: folds --- DEALING FLOP [5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] KiepDoDen06: bets $250.00 DJ Sensei: raises $300.00 to $550.00 pungy: calls $550.00 KiepDoDen06: folds --- DEALING TURN [9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] DJ Sensei: checks pungy: checks --- DEALING RIVER [T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] DJ Sensei: checks pungy: bets $1,580.00 (pot) DJ Sensei: ? call or fold (or shove?) would anybody play the rest of the hand differently? |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is semiloose, not too aggressive but not a nit or a rock by any means. Pretty much your standard fullring breakeven player. Original raiser I don't know much about, but since he was telegraphing huge pair I was giving him some rope with the almost-minraise. I'd rather not hear about that part of the hand, unless you think it really matters a lot. ------------------------------ Bodog History for Hand #748399682 Hold'em No Limit ($10.00/$20.00) - 2007-06-06 19:06:39 Table 'Conseco Fieldhouse' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: Kwickfish ($1759.00) Seat 2: Wild Duck ($4493.00) Seat 3: Reinhart ($1460.28) Seat 4: TexasJeff ($2164.00) Seat 5: KiepDoDen06 ($1712.00) Seat 6: Jynnan_Tonnyx ($2088.00) Seat 7: DJ Sensei ($5200.00) Seat 8: coolnbest ($3185.00) Seat 9: pungy ($3326.00) ------------------------------ NEW HAND TexasJeff: posts the small blind $10.00 KiepDoDen06: posts the big blind $20.00 --- DEALING POCKETS DJ Sensei is dealt [5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] Jynnan_Tonnyx: folds DJ Sensei: calls $20.00 coolnbest: folds pungy: calls $20.00 Kwickfish: folds Wild Duck: folds Reinhart: folds TexasJeff: calls $10.00 KiepDoDen06: raises $80.00 to $100.00 DJ Sensei: calls $80.00 pungy: calls $80.00 TexasJeff: folds --- DEALING FLOP [5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] KiepDoDen06: bets $250.00 DJ Sensei: raises $300.00 to $550.00 pungy: calls $550.00 KiepDoDen06: folds --- DEALING TURN [9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] DJ Sensei: checks pungy: checks --- DEALING RIVER [T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] DJ Sensei: checks pungy: bets $1,580.00 (pot) DJ Sensei: ? call or fold (or shove?) would anybody play the rest of the hand differently? [/ QUOTE ] gotta call i like the turn check tho, his flop call is mad scary. I think you are good like 2/3 time here on the river, but decent enough chance he will muck a str8/naked trips if you c/r that you're a dog to his calling range |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
im comfortably putting him on Ad9d or complete air here
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
how is his flop call scary? it was pretty much a min raise. every draw calls, every pair calls.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
Do you think he would play J8, 86, or 9x in this fashion?
If so, don't fold. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
how is his flop call scary? it was pretty much a min raise. every draw calls, every pair calls. [/ QUOTE ] because he wasn't the original bettor, he cold-called with the PFR yet to act |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
does anyone else really like a turn bet after exactly that turn card falls? my default would be to check the turn but after the 9 falls i'd strongly re-consider. i mean, it's a really good card for our hand and i dont mean just because it gives us a boat.
as played i can't see folding river. we DID make a small raise and then check two streets after all. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
sensei, you really don't look like you have a boat here. i can't see folding given the way the hand played out.
my initial reaction is to say i don't like the turn check, but playing it this way sometimes may be the best way to get value on those frequent occasions he has some sort of draw or combo hand that is drawing dead or thin. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
i never fold this.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think he would play J8, 86, or 9x in this fashion? If so, don't fold. [/ QUOTE ] You know, wtf, I can think of a bunch of hands including bluffs that he would play this way. Folding is so not an option vs. his entire range. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
Why would you check this turn? Especially after his call on the flop and that turn card. It would seem to me that he is on a diamond draw with possible ace9d or 9xd. I can't imagine him just calling with 77 on that flop so that hand is unlikely. It would also seem that he would bet turn in pos with a9 89 9ten type hands. As played I think you have to just call because I don't think you are getting called by a worse hand except ace9 maybe.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
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Why would you check this turn? Especially after his call on the flop and that turn card. It would seem to me that he is on a diamond draw with possible ace9d or 9xd. I can't imagine him just calling with 77 on that flop so that hand is unlikely. It would also seem that he would bet turn in pos with a9 89 9ten type hands. As played I think you have to just call because I don't think you are getting called by a worse hand except ace9 maybe. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
This seems like the easiest call ever. However Im incredibly surprised you played it so weakly. I cant imagine folding seeing as how the only hand you realistically lose to is 1010 or some wacky 97 or something.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
Maybe it's nitty but I think I'd fold. Then again I'd never play any of the streets like you did except preflop.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
omg this seems like a QUCIK QUICKM call
i don't like your raise size on the floop jesus i call this fast |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
He has quad 9's. You read it here first.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
Wow, I don't know how you can check river..If some godly way I got to his bet in this fashion, I'd be so happy about calling. You played this as if it were an omaha hand.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
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Wow, I don't know how you can check river. [/ QUOTE ] River check seems pretty standard here. he's gonna bet with pretty much his entire range if i check, so i get mad value from both busted draws and worse made hands that way, and i avoid stacking off entirely if he's ahead. After considering the hand for a while, I think that he rarely checks behind the turn with the middle of his range {9dXd, 86, 77, etc.} When he checks behind turn, I think that stratifies his range into {99, draw}. As such, river is a clear c/c. Results in white: <font color="white">I did call, he shows Kx dd for busted diamond draw, mhig</font> |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Wow, I don't know how you can check river. [/ QUOTE ] River check seems pretty standard here. he's gonna bet with pretty much his entire range if i check, so i get mad value from both busted draws and worse made hands that way, and i avoid stacking off entirely if he's ahead. After considering the hand for a while, I think that he rarely checks behind the turn with the middle of his range {9dXd, 86, 77, etc.} When he checks behind turn, I think that stratifies his range into {99, draw}. As such, river is a clear c/c. Results in white: <font color="white">I did call, he shows Kx dd for busted diamond draw, mhig</font> [/ QUOTE ] LOL what is this metagame for future posts so we don't assume you lost? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
well, if people see it before they read the rest, it'll skew their thoughts. I mean, i dont know how much more useful discussion there is to have here, but if there is some i dont want to mess it up with the results being all up in their face.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
I don't think I would ever consider folding in a million years.
I probably just call, definitely shove if turn and river cards were reversed. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
Original raiser I don't know much about, but since he was telegraphing huge pair I was giving him some rope with the almost-minraise. [/ QUOTE ] DJ, Can you elaborate a bit more on this? I don't think a typical bodog donkey ever folds a big pair ever on this board for <100bb. Why not just make a standard raise, deny the overcaller the odds to draw, get it in vs. overpair, make free money? |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
super easy instant call. you check the turn to trap than you want to fold? lol
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
Call quick before Bodog locks up.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
Call quick before Bodog locks up. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Original raiser I don't know much about, but since he was telegraphing huge pair I was giving him some rope with the almost-minraise. [/ QUOTE ] DJ, Can you elaborate a bit more on this? I don't think a typical bodog donkey ever folds a big pair ever on this board for <100bb. Why not just make a standard raise, deny the overcaller the odds to draw, get it in vs. overpair, make free money? [/ QUOTE ] 1) the overcaller doesnt have the odds to draw, unless i'm paying off when he gets there (i'm not when its that obvious what he has) 2) not all people will stack off an overpair so easily, and my reads on this guy werent all that solid. so my small raise was intended to look like a draw (because there are so many out there) and I think a random player should be more inclined to shove over the top of that than a larger raise. I rarely make raises this small, but I really dont see anything wrong with it here. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
I hope you don't have to get away from hands like this, with this line for a river psb, to be a great player.
I pretty much insta call this. If he doesn't have a busted dr or a str, oh well. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
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Maybe it's nitty but I think I'd fold. Then again I'd never play any of the streets like you did except preflop. [/ QUOTE ] hahaha |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
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Maybe it's nitty but I think I'd fold. Then again I'd never play any of the streets like you did except preflop. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
What are you scared of here?
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
Seriously, what are you guys putting him on that is ahead of you??? Can someone please justify their reasoning for "well maybe its nitty, but i fold" Come on, this was played like such an obvious draw or overpair from opponent and his turn makes no sense if he has a higher boat or quads. i fold here 0% of time (so dont go trying to bluff me off of an underboat)
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
i bet the turn 100% of the time. He is drawing dead way more often than you're behind. he has diamonds or the made straight a lot here. def def def bet the turn. then if a diamond falls, i push the river. if no diamond, i prob c/r the river (or c/c all-in). can't believe you want to lay this down. you are behind precisely one hand and I think he'd play 777 faster on the flop with the diamond draw out there.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
DJ,
I feel like you missed alot of value in this hand everywhere. In your second post you say that it was obvious he had a draw here. Yet, instead of betting one of the best turn cards for your hand (maximizing value against your typical bodog donk who check calls everything), you turned your underboat into a bluff catcher. I feel like the only two hands you need to be scared of is 77 and 99, leaning much more towards 77. With all the crazy combo draws out there it's a crime not to get more money in by the river given villians line. Take it fwiw, I've played alot of poker with u at 3-6nl on bodog, much respek for your game. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
well a big part of this hand (and similar ones, particularly if deeper stacked than this) is the matter of "if stacks go all the way in, how often am i ahead?". it depends entirely on the opponent of course. against some, i'd stack off 6k or more with this hand. against others, with 3k stacks i'm playing for pot control. as played i might have missed some value because this guy is apparently splashing around more than i expected, but if i come out strong again on the turn, isnt my hand obviously strong given that he coldcalled me on the flop?
obviously trying to put a discrete dollar amount to the value of your hand is ridiculous in a NL context, but I think the underlying concept is there, buried in the language of betting patterns and hand ranges. |
Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
Playing for pot control on this turn is a poor choice.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
You say your not paying off when its obvious he get there? Hnmm.... thats a lot of confidence in your reads. i really don't see not going broke with your hand in the game your describing but if you can check fold an A or K then nice read.. I hope.
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
God I think it looks fine, I may bet turn and get it all in there on any raise from him, It looks like A9 here probably diamonds.....
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Re: I\'m not known for making big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
You say your not paying off when its obvious he get there? Hnmm.... thats a lot of confidence in your reads. i really don't see not going broke with your hand in the game your describing but if you can check fold an A or K then nice read.. I hope. [/ QUOTE ] if the turn is a non-pairing diamond, i am most certainly not putting more money in the pot without good odds to draw to a boat, because at that point i am ahead of zero percent of his range (well, except maybe exactly 97, and that hand would just chill out after a diamond came off, because he'd be as scared of it as me) |
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