Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Just ban them as you ban bots. If you want to gain information on a player, just look at him play and take notes. Gaining information taken by a bot is as bad as being a bot

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Poker Tracker and HUDs organize information that players have free access to.

That is kind of miles away from having a computer program play hands for you.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

in before lock

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

In before Tuff

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

are we really doing this again?

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Poker Tracker and HUDs organize information that players have free access to.

That is kind of miles away from having a computer program play hands for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you have free access to this information. Anything a programm makes for you should be banned, simple. Poker is a people's game, not a software's one

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

A) How?
B) Why?

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

A) I don't know, I suck at computers
B) Because you have access to inforamtion you wouldn't be able to get yourself

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
A) I don't know, I suck at computers
B) Because you have access to inforamtion you wouldn't be able to get yourself

[/ QUOTE ]
??

Of course you can get this info yourself. Unless you're talking about datamining, which is a totally different kettle of fish, and is already prevented by some sites.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
A) I don't know, I suck at computers
B) Because you have access to inforamtion you wouldn't be able to get yourself

[/ QUOTE ]

A) That's not all
B) No, you don't

Now, if you want to ban datamining, more power to you, go Stars, etc. But PT/PAHUD give me access to information I have collected myself, and more importantly, I HAVE PAID for by paying rake at the table.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

roo hand history files are freely available all those program do is organize the information

is everything okay if a player prints out all the hand history files and spends a week in front of graph paper to organize all the info?

Re: Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Question:

Should the NFL ban head coaches from watching game tapes of other teams?

Re: Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just ban them as you ban bots. If you want to gain information on a player, just look at him play and take notes. Gaining information taken by a bot is as bad as being a bot

[/ QUOTE ]

What an original idea you had there.

Re: Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Question:

Should the NFL ban head coaches from watching game tapes of other teams?

[/ QUOTE ]
Which would be like no datamining. The equivalent of no PT would be even worse - not being allowed to watch tape of their OWN games.

Re: Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

I can see an agruement for banning HUDS..HUDS are a computer program that aid in the play of a hand while the hand is being played..But I can not see banning PT...PT is used after the hand is played and is a review or statistical accumulation of your own hands...PT info is available to everybody...

Re: Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Although i don't agree, i can see why people would want to ban hud, but its really just an advanced program that saves you a lot of pencil and paper. It works off your own stats. Banning PT is absolutely ridiculous. Banning datamining, although i would protest... its probably fair.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is a people's game, not a software's one

[/ QUOTE ]

umm play live?

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is a people's game, not a software's one

[/ QUOTE ]

umm play better?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
roo hand history files are freely available all those program do is organize the information

is everything okay if a player prints out all the hand history files and spends a week in front of graph paper to organize all the info?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea it's okay if you analyze these infos yourself, letting a programm do it is just wrong.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

we're being leveled, there's no other rational explanation.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
roo hand history files are freely available all those program do is organize the information

is everything okay if a player prints out all the hand history files and spends a week in front of graph paper to organize all the info?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea it's okay if you analyze these infos yourself, letting a programm do it is just wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, would you suggest I input them into some sort of database? Perhaps Access or even PostSQL. And then create some sort of interface which would list some potentially useful values such as the amount of time each player voluntarily put money into the pot, or how often they went to showdown?

You are a man either way ahead or way behind your times, sir.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Then, we should ban HH!! Seriously, I really have no idea how to stop that, but I just think that it is wrong to have info that you didn't gain by yourself

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Then, we should ban HH!! Seriously, I really have no idea how to stop that, but I just think that it is wrong to have info that you didn't gain by yourself

[/ QUOTE ]
Again, roo, this is NOT information you can't gain by yourself. Of course the information would be much more difficult to obtain if we had to sit down and write everything out by hand, but it could be done. Are you confusing datamining (collecting data from hands you are NOT playing in) with tracking your own play? I certainly hope so...if you're not, you're going to find yourself in a verrrry small minority.

Also, without hand histories, how can sites and/or players be held accountable? You get shortchanged at the table, someone colludes against you, you suspect a player of being a bot, you need to claim a special hand promotion a site is running...there are way too many uses for hand histories you might not be thinking of.

Sorry, but I think you're way off-base here.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Then, we should ban HH!! Seriously, I really have no idea how to stop that, but I just think that it is wrong to have info that you didn't gain by yourself

[/ QUOTE ]Why not go whole hog and ban computers altogether? If that doesn't go far enough, why not ban electricity. That will ensure fairness in all aspects of Poker, Gaming and Life.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Wow in before lock also!

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then, we should ban HH!! Seriously, I really have no idea how to stop that, but I just think that it is wrong to have info that you didn't gain by yourself

[/ QUOTE ]Why not go whole hog and ban computers altogether? If that doesn't go far enough, why not ban electricity. That will ensure fairness in all aspects of Poker, Gaming and Life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you could conceive of a game of online poker that is not HUD supported. I use them solely because I don't want to give up the edge that they give. I see it like not wearing cleats to a baseball game. You can play, but not as well as the guy in cleats. If other players have cleats, I damn sure will have them as well.

That doesn't mean that its ridiculous or even undesirable to ban HUDS. If no one can use them, I'm fine with a ban. My concern is more practical. Because I don't intend to cheat, I run the risk that someone else will run the software and I'm at a disadvantage. Thus I think the fact is I'd rather have a rule allowing them, thus leveling the playing field (at least from my perspective) I play a lot at WPEX, which allows pokertracker but does not put player names in hand histories. Thus you can use PT just for your own stats and it can't support a HUD. Its fun. Try it sometime; life can be lived without a HUD.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Ok, I was clearly joking about banning HH. And yea, datamining is by far the thing that annoys me the most.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

EHG,

I have no problem playing without PAHUD if no one else could either. I'm mostly just mocking OP for being a Luddite. I thought that was crystal clear...

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow in before lock also!

[/ QUOTE ]

you have good arguments

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
EHG,

I have no problem playing without PAHUD if no one else could either. I'm mostly just mocking OP for being a Luddite. I thought that was crystal clear...

[/ QUOTE ]

Naw, I get levelled all the time. I've got too many tables open with HUD stats floating everywhere for me to keep it straight. LOL.

PS. Great use of "Luddite." You really don't get to use that one as often as you would like.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

Uhh records for taxes?

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]

yea it's okay if you analyze these infos yourself, letting a programm do it is just wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, it's like, unethical or whatever that cash registers were invented because they penalize street vendors who don't have them.

Why don't you just come out and say, I'd like to arbitrarily draw the line right | here because I'm a whiner and I need everything in the world (facts, principles, etc.) to be my way.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

paper.... err, meant rock...

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

yea it's okay if you analyze these infos yourself, letting a programm do it is just wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, it's like, unethical or whatever that cash registers were invented because they penalize street vendors who don't have them.

Why don't you just come out and say, I'd like to arbitrarily draw the line right | here because I'm a whiner and I need everything in the world (facts, principles, etc.) to be my way.

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys using these programms get an edge that you wouldn't be able to get by yourself, simple? It is against the integrity of the game IMHO but the poker community seems to be ok with that. I am simply stating my opinion.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

There are sites that are not compatible with PT...why not play at those?

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

What are they?? I'll still be playing if you guys use PT,PAHUD, ... but I think I'd win more if you guys didn't.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow in before lock also!

[/ QUOTE ]

you have good arguments

[/ QUOTE ]

I am glad that after 2 years of posting here you made ANOTHER thread on this without any new insight. At least you have good arguments.

Seriously, I understand the perspective, but there are other options. Just go play somewhere that doesn't support PT. If this is a big enough deal for you to make a big screaming thread, it is surely a big enough deal for you to change sites.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

bonuswhores shows PT compatibility in each site's review...try some of the smaller sites/networks. Off the top of my head I can think of Boss & Dobrosoft.

Re: BAN PROGRAMS (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

huds hurt nits cause anyone can see within 30 hands that they are nits so they dont get any action, ppl whining about huds are 1-tabling clueless nits who dont wanna learn to play poker

Re: Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK, ...)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ban programs (PT, PAHUD, AHK , ...)

[/ QUOTE ]

As I can see arguments for banning PT and HUD's demanding to ban AHK is simply retarded. Its like banning optical mouses and wireless keyboards...