Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $45.75
<font color="black">Hero (BB): $27.00</font>
UTG: $21.35
MP: $24.65
CO: $24.30
BTN: $17.15

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $0.85</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $0.75, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.65</font>, MP calls $2.80, SB calls $2.80

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($10.95) 4http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 4http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (3 Players)
SB checks

This is like the first time in something like a year that I kinda considered slow-playing a hand.

Thoughts on checking here?

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

I like checking...The pot is 3 bet PF and there are 2 villains...There is no need to build a pot early the PF action did this..Most importent is BOTH villains are drawing next to dead..

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

yeah I just check here too anyone is going to be scared of a bet but if you call you could easily have a smaller PP and get more value out of the hand.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

Yeah but how are we gonna extract here anyway, hope one of the villains catch up?

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

The last couple times I flopped a made hand I've concluded that checking is the right decision. Then I reconsidered for a couple reasons:

1) People are more likely to call a bet on the flop. Chances are that the turn won't improve their hand (the only real reason for checking), so they probably won't be much more likely to call based on that. If you bet now, they think they have two cards coming and will maybe call to try to hit.

2) I bet at almost every pot I've raised, so if anyone IS paying attention, I don't want to clue them in.

In summary: take them to value town, and if they fold you still won an ok pot.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

AKs calls, PP's prolly call

AQ (very unlikely yes, but it's still a possibility)

Ppl love to call one street and see where they stand, so I prolly bet.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

Somebody catching up is about the only chance you have to win a BIG pot...Betting out may get 1 call/bet from a smaller pair but that's is it...Checking allow hands drawing dead to pick up a draw(or hit there draw) and with the bloated pot PF getting the rest of there stack in the middle will not be a issue...

Also if it get checked thru and they fold to a bet on the turn it did not matter what you did on the flop they were folding anyway....Checking give you the best shot at a big pot...

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

Both are fine. If you bet, you can probably stack AK diamonds on the flop, AA/KK will come along, if you check, AK diamonds isnt likely to stack off on a non diamond turn, you may give AK a chance to hit (although obv AA/KK arent out of the question), you may let one of them hit a worse set.

Either is fine, I generally bet.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

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Also if it get checked thru and they fold to a bet on the turn it did not matter what you did on the flop they were folding anyway

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See, this is exactly what I disagree with. If this were the case, no one would ever fire the second barrel on the turn. But the reality is that weak fish call on the flop to see another card, but have a sense that the second card is somehow worth less (even though the pot odds are probably better now).

I wouldn't make a PSB here. I think you can all kinds of calls other than AK and the unlikely AQ. A lot of PP will call you down, along with the occasional Ax. I kid you not, I had someone call their ENTIRE stack off with A8 or A7 on a 444 flop. I had KK or something. I have no clue what they were thinking, but I got their $25 and they were so far behind it wasn't funny.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had someone call their ENTIRE stack off with A8 or A7 on a 444 flop. I had KK or something. I have no clue what they were thinking,

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zomg is he trying to represent QUADS? lol I'm too smart for that. ARRRRRIN.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

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Also if it get checked thru and they fold to a bet on the turn it did not matter what you did on the flop they were folding anyway

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See, this is exactly what I disagree with. If this were the case, no one would ever fire the second barrel on the turn. But the reality is that weak fish call on the flop to see another card, but have a sense that the second card is somehow worth less (even though the pot odds are probably better now).

I wouldn't make a PSB here. I think you can all kinds of calls other than AK and the unlikely AQ. A lot of PP will call you down, along with the occasional Ax. I kid you not, I had someone call their ENTIRE stack off with A8 or A7 on a 444 flop. I had KK or something. I have no clue what they were thinking, but I got their $25 and they were so far behind it wasn't funny.

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I think of it this way...What gives me the best chance to win a big/huge pot??? I am not worried about getting one more small bet...I want the stacks...Whether or not villain call 1 more bet on the flop but would not have called on the turn is not that important to me...This value here is also greatly reduced by the times you allow AK to spike an A or K on the turn...Also this is a 3 bet PF bloated pot already...This changes the hand dramatically...If this was only a raised pot I would bet out without question...

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

this happened to me earlier today. i had KK and the flop came K55. i checked behind and then things went crazy on the turn when villian with 56 suited decided to stop "slowplaying" his flopped trips. unfortunatley you aren't always this lucky.

in this case, i think its OK to bet 1/3 to 1/2 the pot on the flop and hope someone has a flush draw. it's going to be really hard to get stacks in the middle without betting all 3 streets.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

it's going to be really hard to get stacks in the middle without betting all 3 streets.


This is not true...Not needing 3 streets is a major reason why I like a check..Any "real" bet by either villain will virtually committ them...Effective stacks are about 100BBs in a three way reraised pot...

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

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unfortunatley you aren't always this lucky.


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O RLY? Well I always have my luckbox polished you know.

Here's what happened:

Flop checks through, Turn offsuit 3, SB leads for $1.75, I call, MP raises to $10 (omg sexy time), SB folds, I shove, MP instacalls with 33

POKER IS EZ SHIP IT.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

Against a good/decent opponent, your only hope is that he makes a hand. Against a crappy opponent it's not necessarily so.

I think ONLY playing for stacks is a bad way to make money in the long run. I want to get his stack in here as often as possible too, but I'll take whatever I can get. If that's just one more 1/2 PSB on the flop, great. It's still more than you get when you let him see two free cards (which will miss him like 80% of the time) and get nothing more.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

A good player will put you on a hand immediately. And a bad one will loose more by drawing.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

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A good player will put you on a hand immediately. And a bad one will loose more by drawing.

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Very sage. So you advocate the check as well?

My anecdotal evidence over 5k hands or so over the weekend is that betting gets more money in the long run. Could be sample size issues.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

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A good player will put you on a hand immediately.

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Well I probably check AK here too...

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

Sometimes, but a whole lot less likely.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

[ QUOTE ]
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A good player will put you on a hand immediately. And a bad one will loose more by drawing.

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Very sage. So you advocate the check as well?

My anecdotal evidence over 5k hands or so over the weekend is that betting gets more money in the long run. Could be sample size issues.

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Betting is way better. At worst it gives the villain an opportunity to minraise on a paired board.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

Oh ok, thought you were disagreeing with me. I know I'm headed down the right thought process when Corsakh comes along and says the same thing I did.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

check flop... hope he has a flush draw and is stupid enough to draw on a boat board

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

checking and betting about half the pot are both good moves and I'd base the decision almost entirely on the table image I had at the time

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

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My anecdotal evidence over 5k hands or so over the weekend is that betting gets more money in the long run. Could be sample size issues.

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Exactly. You flopped a big hand, and therefore want to build a big pot. You haven't got a sneaky monster, since you 3-bet preflop. If you had called preflop, I would think about check-call flop, and possibly check-raise turn.

Since you showed so much strengh pre-flop, villain will be suspicious if you slowplay here and may fold to further aggression.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

I bet this like 80% of the time w/o reads. If you check AQ on this flop, then check. Otherwise play it the same as if you had a hand you would normally c-bet with.

I really like a bet of $8.50 on this flop.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

you gotta bet. betting is less credible than checking.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

To ppl saying that villain will call a sb but our only chance to win a big pot is by checking, please think about it and realise how bad this logic is

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

I would bet here, although it does depend on your opponents aggressiveness to some extent and their image of you. In any case, you must try and get your whole stack in at some point with customers. The best way to do this is to bet.

If they are all passive calling stations, then bet. If they are super agro and you think they will bet, then check/raise.

Never check/call as they will think something is up if you have an aggro image.

Re: Wow I think I just killed the deck...
 

I like putting in a $4 bet on the flop, then an $8 bet on the turn. These bet sizes look like blocking bets, and if they call down your turn bet you have half of their stack at that point.

This would make them -somewhat- more likely to call off the rest of their stack on the river, no? (Assuming they hit something).