Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

I like where Dene Tribe says "you may have already seen complicated systems" for evaluating poker tournament structures, as if there are lots of these types of tournament speed evaluation systems out there. As if there's no sense in crediting any individual author of such a system.

For the record, I developed the first such system and published it in my book, The Poker Tournament Formula, and to my knowledge no other book has yet been published with any similar evaluation system.

I've also published numerous articles on the importance of tournament structure on optimal strategy and skill requirements. The latest of these was "True M" versus Harrington's M: Critical Flaws in Harrington's M Theory, And Why Tournament Structure Matters.

Tribe's system is nothing more than a watered-down version of my "patience factor" method and the "skill level" system in my book. There is absolutely nothing original in his method.

If Mason Malmuth is the editor of the 2+2 mag, I consider his failure to cite my work a blatant rip-off.

I suppose we can expect a new 2+2 tournament book any time now with their "discoveries" about how tournament speed defines skill level and affects strategy, of course without crediting my work.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

Actually I did poker tournament structure evaluation back in 2004, so you were second.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

First off, I'm not the editor of our Internet Magazine.

However, our editor does send me the articles to read before they are posted, but this month due to a huge amount of manuscript work I did not read all the Internet Magazine articles that went up and the ones I did read (about half of them) were read very quickly.

With that being said, I did read Poker Tournament Evaluation System by Dene Tribe very quickly and saw nothing wrong with it. It's common knowledge, and has been common knowledge for many years, that tournaments which raise the stakes very quickly are not skill oriented. Poker players refer to these as "Crap Shoots," and this was not a revelation from you.

I have asked a friend of mine to look at the article independently of me (and our editor). If he feels that you and/or your book should be cited, we will add that into the article.

I also need to point out that the article of yours that you cite in your post contains numerous inaccuracies as to exactly what Harrington says. As for not crediting your work, or the work of others in our books, this is something that we are very concious of and that we do in our books. In fact, when working on manuscripts for publication, we frequently will have our authors add-in references to the works of other authors whether they are Two Plus Two or not.

Finally, I do want to point out that even though I gave your book a positive review, an 8 on my 1-to-10 scale (with anything being 8 or higher being something I recommend) your book does contain flaws which have already been discussed in length on some of our other forums.

MM

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

When I first read Dene Tribe's article myself, I was concerned that it would be/was very similar to Mr. Snyder's Poker Tournament Formula. After reading it however, I actually found Tribe's article to be a simpler forumla (and different) from the one prescribed by Mr. Snyder. However, that being said, the topics are similar enough that Mr. Snyder should have been given proper citation as another author on the topic in my opinion.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
When I first read Dene Tribe's article myself, I was concerned that it would be/was very similar to Mr. Snyder's Poker Tournament Formula.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I started reading I actually thought the opposite (that it would be significantly different than Snyder's patience factor calculations). My conclusion after reading it was that it was a vastly simplified version of Snyder. Snyder assigns a skill level classification based on blinding off your entire stack whereas Tribe's measures remaining stack at the end of the first hour. Essentially Tribe stops midway thru Snyder's process and assigns the classification at that point.

Whether this simplification gets you to the same place or not is just conjecture without running some comparisons. My guess is it depends on the specific structure. If blind level progression is smooth and levels are short probably. Snyder's formula gives a more precise number that can better differentiate between two tournaments with comparable skill levels. Whether this matters is up for debate.

I was surprised that when Tribe says, "You may have already seen complicated systems which require the complete tournament blind structure, but the beauty of my system is simplicity," that he didn't specifcally mention Snyder. That's who I thought of when I read this (although the statement isn't true since Snyder only requires a partial blind structure as well). I assume the 2+2 Magazine editor is aware of Snyder's patience factor and I know Mason is. The lack of acknowledgement or mention surprised me.

But what I found most interesting was the several times in the article where Tribe says that your strategy should change based on the speed of the tournament. He briefly discusses Harrington's zone system making it clear that he believes this is optimal for high skill tournaments. But in the introduction, conclusion, and body he implies that your strategy should be different in a faster (lower skill) tournament. He doesn't go into much detail as to what those changes should be although the implication is there in several places, the most telling being "that is a big change quick and the Skillful player should avoid this tournament or quickly adapt a very aggressive style early in the tourney to pick up the necessary chips for survival." I was beyond amazed to read this since Mason has always contended that tournament structure and speed have absolutely nothing to do with appropriate strategy.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

Published where? Please provide your citation.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

The revelation of my book is that fast poker tournaments are not crap shoots, but highly valuable for players who adjust their tournament strategy according to the structure of the tournament. The reason fast tournaments were considered crap shoots is because the published strategies were incorrect--losing strategies--for these events. My book provides a fast tournament strategy in which I have compiled a win rate of over 230% past 5 standard deviations.

In addition, my book is the first to provide a systematic method of assessing the skill value of fast tournaments.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
Published where? Please provide your citation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I published it on my computer, and burnt a disc as proof.

I sent it around to a bunch of friends, probably about the same number of people who read your book.

You're lucky I didn't file a patent or trademark it.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Published where? Please provide your citation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I published it on my computer, and burnt a disc as proof.

I sent it around to a bunch of friends, probably about the same number of people who read your book.

You're lucky I didn't file a patent or trademark it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you actually citing this as proof? Can you get these friends to verify that they received this information in 2004? If you can, that's fine, but you have to admit "I wrote it on my computer" is pretty hard to believe.

And you also said that you did "tournament structure evaluation". Evaluating a "good" versus a "bad" tournament structure isn't anything new; it's specifically the strategy modifications based on the speed of the blind raises. Does your evaluation contain strategy changes related to the blind structure?

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

After re-reading Tribe's article, I must admit that his system is an awful lot like Snyder's. I count two differences:

1) Snyder's calculates the patience factor as a function of how long it takes a player to blind out. Tribe's calculates (in the same fashion) a number based on playing for 1 hour.

2) From what I can tell, Tribe's rating system is different from Snyder's.

Otherwise, I have to admit they are awfully similar. In the world of academia, Tribe's article could not have been published without at least recognizing Snyder's work in the area.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

Mr. Snyder's formula for calculating tournament speed does not strike me as "complicated", and certainly doesn't require any more info than a poker room can readily provide.

So I am somewhat puzzled as to why a "simplification" was deemed necessary, or even appropriate.

The failure to credit PTF as a previous work on this topic is also perplexing, and certainly troubling.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you actually citing this as proof? Can you get these friends to verify that they received this information in 2004? If you can, that's fine, but you have to admit "I wrote it on my computer" is pretty hard to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't his username, "Troll Inc," adequately summarize his contribution and motivation in posting to this thread?

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Published where? Please provide your citation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I published it on my computer, and burnt a disc as proof.

I sent it around to a bunch of friends, probably about the same number of people who read your book.

You're lucky I didn't file a patent or trademark it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you actually citing this as proof? Can you get these friends to verify that they received this information in 2004? If you can, that's fine, but you have to admit "I wrote it on my computer" is pretty hard to believe.

And you also said that you did "tournament structure evaluation". Evaluating a "good" versus a "bad" tournament structure isn't anything new; it's specifically the strategy modifications based on the speed of the blind raises. Does your evaluation contain strategy changes related to the blind structure?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes to all of these.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

He sent me one.

I'll sell you my copy for $11.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

i do think arnold's book deserves a citation.... i doubt it was exactly a unique idea (although i'd never seen it specifically before, and i think arnold said someone else showed him the formula) but i do think arnold basically popularized it and has a great resource where he rates tournaments from all over USA and the internet.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

cool all you need to do now is get to a couple of WSOP main even final tables and people might actually care

those who can do, those who cant teach

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

I guess the question is whether 2+2 is planning on publishing a book based on Arnold's book. ER, I mean based on the article. I predict they are planning this.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
cool all you need to do now is get to a couple of WSOP main even final tables and people might actually care

those who can do, those who cant teach

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is stupid. Do you know why?

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
cool all you need to do now is get to a couple of WSOP main even final tables and people might actually care

those who can do, those who cant teach

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are referring to Arnold in this statement, then you are an idiot who hasn't even bothered to grasp this concept...and you don't even know why.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
cool all you need to do now is get to a couple of WSOP main even final tables and people might actually care

those who can do, those who cant teach

[/ QUOTE ]

you're a tool!!

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Published where? Please provide your citation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I published it on my computer, and burnt a disc as proof.

I sent it around to a bunch of friends, probably about the same number of people who read your book.

You're lucky I didn't file a patent or trademark it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem peevish--perhaps because you lacked the discipline and motivation necessary to write a 365 page book, and get it published?

That is your problem, and certainly not a concern of Mr. Snyder's.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Published where? Please provide your citation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I published it on my computer, and burnt a disc as proof.

I sent it around to a bunch of friends, probably about the same number of people who read your book.

You're lucky I didn't file a patent or trademark it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem peevish--perhaps because you lacked the discipline and motivation necessary to write a 365 page book, and get it published?

That is your problem, and certainly not a concern of Mr. Snyder's.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny, I guess I was too busy working on my Ph.D. thesis with 1000 references to bother publishing poker stuff. BTW, what kind of loser publishes poker stuff?

Also, I should point out that your husband started all this whinging. I was just pointing out that like my emails, noone read your husband's book and therefore it's going to be hard to know to cite him. That's the Truth Ruth!

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I should point out that your husband started all this whinging. I was just pointing out that like my emails, noone read your husband's book and therefore it's going to be hard to know to cite him. That's the Truth Ruth!

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again you're confused. I'm not sure if Malo is a man or a woman, but surely he/she isn't Arnold's wife. Her handle is well known to anyone who has followed any of the threads regarding the PTF.

You're obviously well plugged into the book business and know how many copies of the PTF have been sold. I'm interested in the number. Your source of the information would be valuable to gauge your credibility (or lack of) as well.

In any case stating that "no one" has read the book and "therefore it's going to be hard to know to cite him" is an idiotic statement that is demonstrably false unless you're going to claim that Mason reviewed the book without reading it.

Go Troll elsewhere.

Don\'t feed the trolls
 

'Nuff said.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]


You're obviously well plugged into the book business and know how many copies of the PTF have been sold. I'm interested in the number. Your source of the information would be valuable to gauge your credibility (or lack of) as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

PTF
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #43,134 in Books
http://www.amazon.com/Poker-Tournament-F...3974&sr=8-1

Harrington Vol 3
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,665 in Books
(also from amazon numbers)

Thanks. Any other questions that I can clear up for you?

-T

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, what kind of loser publishes poker stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an odd comment for a forum associated with a publishing house with a focus on poker.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I should point out that your husband started all this whinging. I was just pointing out that like my emails, noone read your husband's book and therefore it's going to be hard to know to cite him. That's the Truth Ruth!

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not Arnold Snyder's wife, nor is my name Ruth. In fact, never even met the man. I am a woman, but your assumptions beyond that are unfounded.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
PTF
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #43,134 in Books
http://www.amazon.com/Poker-Tournament-F...3974&sr=8-1

Harrington Vol 3
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,665 in Books
(also from amazon numbers)

Thanks. Any other questions that I can clear up for you?

-T

[/ QUOTE ]

Now here is a link for The Bible. It's Amazon rank is currently #326,504. Based on your "logic" more people have read the PTF than the bible. Glad I could clear that up.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PTF
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #43,134 in Books
http://www.amazon.com/Poker-Tournament-F...3974&sr=8-1

Harrington Vol 3
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,665 in Books
(also from amazon numbers)

Thanks. Any other questions that I can clear up for you?

-T

[/ QUOTE ]

Now here is a link for The Bible. It's Amazon rank is currently #326,504. Based on your "logic" more people have read the PTF than the bible. Glad I could clear that up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Today's discussion must have sparked sales. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
The Poker Tournament Formula (Paperback)
by Arnold Snyder (Author)

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #28,792 in Books

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

LOL at this whole imbroglio. Mason, you couldn't possibly have any less credibility than you do right now. You whined and moaned when Hilger published his book and used a hand example where someone had AK and a K flopped. You bitched and bitched about how you had published a similar example years earlier, and he should have credited your work. You're such a buffoon.

And now, this. Hilarious. No integrity, no objectivity, no clue.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've also published numerous articles on the importance of tournament structure on optimal strategy and skill requirements. The latest of these was "True M" versus Harrington's M: Critical Flaws in Harrington's M Theory, And Why Tournament Structure Matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arnold, the article states "Thus, we are forced to believe that what Mason Malmuth claims is true: that Harrington considers his strategies correct for tournaments of all speeds. So it is doubtful that he made any True M adjustments, even for slower tournament structures. Simply put, Harrington is oblivious to the true mathematics of M."

My opinion is that this is not correct. I believe Dan does, in fact, know intuitively that his M is not quite correct. Or at least, that there is more to it.

Consider his comment on page 156. "Before you start a hand with a short chip stack, you want to review your M... With the blinds totalling $75, your M is about 15... In a few hands, however, the blinds will double and your M will shrink to between 7 and 8... so on all counts you're looking to make some sort of move."

So Dan understands how speed affects things, at least on some level. He just didn't flesh it all out.

In other words, I believe Dan basically agrees with you about "True M", if you pressed him, but his book was what it was at the time. Now his strategy may well be conservative, possibly too conservative to be optimal. But that is another matter.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've also published numerous articles on the importance of tournament structure on optimal strategy and skill requirements. The latest of these was "True M" versus Harrington's M: Critical Flaws in Harrington's M Theory, And Why Tournament Structure Matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arnold, the article states "Thus, we are forced to believe that what Mason Malmuth claims is true: that Harrington considers his strategies correct for tournaments of all speeds. So it is doubtful that he made any True M adjustments, even for slower tournament structures. Simply put, Harrington is oblivious to the true mathematics of M."

My opinion is that this is not correct. I believe Dan does, in fact, know intuitively that his M is not quite correct. Or at least, that there is more to it.

Consider his comment on page 156. "Before you start a hand with a short chip stack, you want to review your M... With the blinds totalling $75, your M is about 15... In a few hands, however, the blinds will double and your M will shrink to between 7 and 8... so on all counts you're looking to make some sort of move."

So Dan understands how speed affects things, at least on some level. He just didn't flesh it all out.

In other words, I believe Dan basically agrees with you about "True M", if you pressed him, but his book was what it was at the time. Now his strategy may well be conservative, possibly too conservative to be optimal. But that is another matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has already been extensively discussed: Link Just in case you wanted to know. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, I believe Dan basically agrees with you about "True M", if you pressed him, but his book was what it was at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff,

This is also what I've always believed. The discussion of effective M as well as several asides in other sections have led me to this conclusion. However Mason says he talked to Harrington and he said no. Not sure if it is the same thread Shermn linked, but a current thread in the Books and Pubs forum has the link to what Mason said on this. If he truly feels this way I'd be interested in his explanation of the parts of the book that seem to contradict this and what he really meant.

Your example is just one of many examples. Taking that comment to the logical conclusion (what if blinds go up and your M goes down every 8-10 hands) then he and Arnold don't seem to be that far apart on this issue whether Harrington spelled it out or not.

Al

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

Holy Crap. That discussion in Books and Pubs (linked here) is too long for anyone to read IMO. In the post above, I linked a much shorter discussion of Snyder's most recent article in the MTT strategy forum. Good luck to anyone who wants to start reading the books and pubs thread now. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
Holy Crap. That discussion in Books and Pubs (linked here) is too long for anyone to read IMO. In the post above, I linked a much shorter discussion of Snyder's most recent article in the MTT strategy forum. Good luck to anyone who wants to start reading the books and pubs thread now. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, not that one. No one deserves that. I meant this one. If someone reads the thread you linked and wants more there are a bazillion others over the last year in the books and pubs thread although that one is the mother of all threads.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

Tribe's article is the "Edsel" of strategies to adjust for tournament speeds.

Brann

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL at this whole imbroglio. Mason, you couldn't possibly have any less credibility than you do right now. You whined and moaned when Hilger published his book and used a hand example where someone had AK and a K flopped. You bitched and bitched about how you had published a similar example years earlier, and he should have credited your work. You're such a buffoon.

And now, this. Hilarious. No integrity, no objectivity, no clue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the reminder, Jeffnc. Had forgotten that one.

So far can't find that old discussion thread (and have run out of time to look before work), but found a collection of MM's reviews which contains this comment about Hilger's book:

"Another complaint I have about the book is that many of the ideas and concepts come from other books, yet the author gives virtually no credit to these sources. Many passages in the book are clearly just rewrites of material in either The Theory of Poker or Hold ’em Poker for Advanced Players, and to increase his credibility as a legitimate authority worth listening to, Hilger should have included many appropriate references."

Guess giving credit is only important when it is a 2+2 book he feels has been slighted. Hmmm...

A link to where this was found:
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...te_id/1#import

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
However Mason says he talked to Harrington and he said no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I recall the thread where Mason claimed this. Unfortunately, he was in the middle of desparately trying to protect 2+2 turf, and in light of that and all things since, that comment has no credibility with me. Which is not to say it's false, just to say that just because Mason said it doesn't make it true.

By the way, I'm more than a little curious as to why Harrington has never bothered commenting on any of this stuff. Probably because he'll make just as much money if he doesn't :-)

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
The revelation of my book is that fast poker tournaments are not crap shoots, but highly valuable for players who adjust their tournament strategy according to the structure of the tournament. The reason fast tournaments were considered crap shoots is because the published strategies were incorrect--losing strategies--for these events. My book provides a fast tournament strategy in which I have compiled a win rate of over 230% past 5 standard deviations.

In addition, my book is the first to provide a systematic method of assessing the skill value of fast tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I think you AND Harrington's M have good points. I use your criteria as a way of choosing the tournament but as far as adjusting your play based on where you're at in the tournament, it's nearly identical because harrington does make these adjustments as far as loosening up starting hand requirements and short stack play just like your book. Your book claims that he doesn't take certain things like position into account which is nonsense. I've read them both and I agree that you make some inaccurate statements about harrington's formula. It's almost as if you really didn't read his entire 3 books set like the most of us.

Anyway, I do believe along with yourself that you deserve some type of credit about you're blinding off theory (I'll just call it that because simply put it's how long it takes to blind out). The other formula seems like an abbreviation of this formula. But to be honest, your formula seems almost identical to Harringtons. Did you realize that Harrington adjusts his M according to the number of players at the table and a correction factor can be added based on how many hands per hour? Now take into account the zone theory he comes up with and you pretty much have the same theory as yourself except it 2 times 2 instead of 2 plus 2. The answer is still 4.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

[ QUOTE ]
The revelation of my book is that fast poker tournaments are not crap shoots

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct

[ QUOTE ]
but highly valuable for players who adjust their tournament strategy according to the structure of the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

but for the wrong reason.

Fast structure tournament give a large advantage to players who understand low M poker. M is very useful as a tool for quickly estimating pot odds in various situations.

The use you and Dene Tribe put M to seems to me to be fairly obvious anyway and rather missing the point.

[ QUOTE ]
<=5 No Stack Lottery No Skill: This type of tournament will proceed very rapidly and those who receive the best cards will prevail with little regard for tactics.

[/ QUOTE ]

This quote from Dene Tribe’s article is just wrong. “No Skill” is just an exaggeration that is going to confuse people. Further his article seems to overlook the fact that faster tournaments are quicker than slow ones. You should not compare one fast tournament with one slow one, but rather several fast ones with one slow one. Once you make this adjustment I think you find fast tournaments have a lower variance as measured against time and are almost as profitable although not necessarily for the same people.

Re: Dene Tribe\'s Poker Tournament Evaluation System is a Rip-Off
 

I have an idea on how to solve this whole debate. Let's take some specific examples in tournament play and how each theory would differ. Anyone have the book, they could just list an example...Of course each example would need to have the right information available to make the correct assessement. For instance, in harrington volume 3, it's all examples and they are mostly well known tournaments. I'm sure we could pull some of those examples and even the tournament structure and compare notes. It would be interesting if Arnold Snyder's strategy is different based on the known factors in the examples in Harrington's books.

- X