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Bots and the future of online poker
Bot technology is improving. In 2 years, not only will the bots play better, they will become harder to detect.
Is it unreasonable to think that in a relatively short period of time a bot could be programmed that is virtually impossible to distinguish from a human player? I've never thought of bots as a real threat to online poker itself, only to the opponents it wins from. However, in reading the posts of the past few days it seems that bots could easily be the biggest threat to online poker yet. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
I have no weakenss exept eaty and sleepy
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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I have no weakenss exept eaty and sleepy [/ QUOTE ] my only weakpoint is hungry and sleepy |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
any solid player should be able to exploit a bot easily
im not worried |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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any solid player should be able to exploit a bot easily im not worried [/ QUOTE ] 5400+ posts. I think you are a bot. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
This is so dumb. There's like 4 bots out there. Deal with them.
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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I have no weaknesses except jerking off and sleepy [/ QUOTE ] FYP |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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This is so dumb. There's like 4000 bots out there. Program 200 of them yourself. [/ QUOTE ] It's a run on the bank--don't be stubborn. get paid! |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
What evidence do you base your statements on?
I figure if it happens, it happens and I move on, there is nothing I can do to prevent this from happening if it is possible to build a good enough bot. However, there are billions at stake for the poker sites and I have full confidence that they will do everything they can to protect their cash cows. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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any solid player should be able to exploit a bot easily im not worried [/ QUOTE ] you are dumb and naive. i am positive if i wrote a bot it would play BETTER THAN ME DUCY |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
It wont develop reads. So no, it won't. Despite the fact that it won't tilt.
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
bots sometimes disguise themselves as food for this exact reason.
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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However, there are billions at stake for the poker sites and I have full confidence that they will do everything they can to protect their cash cows. [/ QUOTE ] Jesus, you guys are naive. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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What evidence do you base your statements on? I figure if it happens, it happens and I move on, there is nothing I can do to prevent this from happening if it is possible to build a good enough bot. However, there are billions at stake for the poker sites and I have full confidence that they will do everything they can to protect their cash cows. [/ QUOTE ] True. The sites should worry about this more than anything else. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
I do CS and have done a lot of research into poker bots / research in the area and can safely say that within the next two years heads up limit will be practically solved by poker bots, shortly followed by limit ring. NL however is a different beast and I and many others can't see a world class bot being developed for at least 5-10 years.
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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It wont develop reads. So no, it won't. Despite the fact that it won't tilt. [/ QUOTE ] this where you are wrong. it can track 100s of thousands of hands and deduce precise hand ranges for certain actions. tilting has nothing to do with it. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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[ QUOTE ] It wont develop reads. So no, it won't. Despite the fact that it won't tilt. [/ QUOTE ] this where you are wrong. it can track 100s of thousands of hands and deduce precise hand ranges for certain actions. tilting has nothing to do with it. [/ QUOTE ] neural networks, Bayesian belief networks, knowledge based systems, simulating parts of the game tree on both sides, ... these are just some of the ways bots can develop near perfect reads |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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[ QUOTE ] any solid player should be able to exploit a bot easily im not worried [/ QUOTE ] you are dumb and naive. i am positive if i wrote a bot it would play BETTER THAN ME DUCY [/ QUOTE ] this, will for a short time bring online poker to a stand still, they have factories in asia where they pay workers to play games like world of warcraft, it wouldn't be too hard to make a bot thatt could beat the low to mid stake games...these same companies will be running hundreds of bots at the same time, the upward funnel of poker money will be disrupted...the sites will come up with new safeguards that will protect the "honest" player for awhile....second verse, same as the first..it will repeat after these companies find a new way to beat the system...anyone who doesn't believe this is naive |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] any solid player should be able to exploit a bot easily im not worried [/ QUOTE ] you are dumb and naive. i am positive if i wrote a bot it would play BETTER THAN ME DUCY [/ QUOTE ] this, will for a short time bring online poker to a stand still, they have factories in asia where they pay workers to play games like world of warcraft, it wouldn't be too hard to make a bot thatt could beat the low to mid stake games...these same companies will be running hundreds of bots at the same time, the upward funnel of poker money will be disrupted...the sites will come up with new safeguards that will protect the "honest" player for awhile....second verse, same as the first..it will repeat after these companies find a new way to beat the system...anyone who doesn't believe this is naive [/ QUOTE ] and i would love for some of the most forthright pro's to comment on this...you know, the ones who "keep it real", strassa, shaniac??? discuss and if we could get a comment from good2cu's forehead that would be icing on the cake |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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[ QUOTE ] However, there are billions at stake for the poker sites and I have full confidence that they will do everything they can to protect their cash cows. [/ QUOTE ] Jesus, you guys are naive. [/ QUOTE ] Let's say youre correct and the sites are unconcerned about bots and losing business when it becomes common knowledge taht the games are filled with bots. What could we possibly do? Absolutely nothing. While my position my be naive, it is the only chance we have to keep making money on line if what the OP states comes to be. I believe in greed. The sites have all the motivation in the world to protect their investments. Even the short sighted sites will see that an unexpoitable bot infestation will kill off their business. The fish that didn't leave on the advice of guys like me would be decimated twice as quickly between the rake and the bots |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
While the potential threat of hardly beatably bots will be there definetly, I´m also sure there will be ways for the sites to protect us against them. E.g. webcam technologly is getting better and better, so one way could be that for being allowed to play you have to sit in front of a webcam so that they can randomly watch you (as a person) play (They might force you to place the webcam in a way that they can see your hand/mouse actions plus the screen). Others might be that the big multitabling isn´t allowed anymore and customer support may ask the player qustions live about the play of hands (plus other questions to make sure not to talk to a bot). I´m sure there are lots of ways others than just tracking the hands, and it might mean that there will be quite some changes for us, but since it´s in their (the sites) foremost interest not to lose the players something will be done hopefully.
Martin Aigner |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
I agree that in time (I mean it is possible right now if the right people worked on it) there will be some very very good bots in pretty much every poker game.
However unlike something like chess where the best chess bots are much better than the top human players, my guess is that the best human players will still be better than the top bots. However they will certainly improve. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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While the potential threat of hardly beatably bots will be there definetly, I´m also sure there will be ways for the sites to protect us against them. E.g. webcam technologly is getting better and better, so one way could be that for being allowed to play you have to sit in front of a webcam so that they can randomly watch you (as a person) play (They might force you to place the webcam in a way that they can see your hand/mouse actions plus the screen). Others might be that the big multitabling isn´t allowed anymore and customer support may ask the player qustions live about the play of hands (plus other questions to make sure not to talk to a bot). I´m sure there are lots of ways others than just tracking the hands, and it might mean that there will be quite some changes for us, but since it´s in their (the sites) foremost interest not to lose the players something will be done hopefully. Martin Aigner [/ QUOTE ] This is a terrible idea and people would never agree to it. Also, how would you jerk one out and play cards at the same time, a favorite past time by many on these boards |
What about NL tourney play?
Given the mechanical nature of a large part of the mid-late stages, I think a profitable NL tourney bot is already here.
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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[ QUOTE ] While the potential threat of hardly beatably bots will be there definetly, I´m also sure there will be ways for the sites to protect us against them. E.g. webcam technologly is getting better and better, so one way could be that for being allowed to play you have to sit in front of a webcam so that they can randomly watch you (as a person) play (They might force you to place the webcam in a way that they can see your hand/mouse actions plus the screen). Others might be that the big multitabling isn´t allowed anymore and customer support may ask the player qustions live about the play of hands (plus other questions to make sure not to talk to a bot). I´m sure there are lots of ways others than just tracking the hands, and it might mean that there will be quite some changes for us, but since it´s in their (the sites) foremost interest not to lose the players something will be done hopefully. Martin Aigner [/ QUOTE ] This is a terrible idea and people would never agree to it. Also, how would you jerk one out and play cards at the same time, a favorite past time by many on these boards [/ QUOTE ] Become an exhibitionist, like this hottie (NSFW) |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
i would absolutely murder bots
bring them on i welcome bots more than short stacks but i don't welcome short stack bots and i am aejones |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
aejones: NL bots would shortstack, DUCY?
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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This is a terrible idea and people would never agree to it. Also, how would you jerk one out and play cards at the same time, a favorite past time by many on these boards [/ QUOTE ] QFT. Also, I would name my NL bot aejwns. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
Professional online gaming (fps's) are overrun by bots yet the games are not dead and are now more sponsored then ever...
If great aimers can beat those bots...decents minds can beat bots at poker. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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However, there are billions at stake for the poker sites and I have full confidence that they will do everything they can to protect their cash cows. [/ QUOTE ] Bots pay a lot more rake than any player that has to sleep. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
1. it's already been near-proven that there are bots playing and beating mid-high stakes cash games online.
2. it's not an issue that the poker sites are going to blow up. I think. See FTP. 3. obviously a poorly designed bot is going to be easily exploitable, no reason to discuss this. 4. anybody who thinks that a VERY well programmed bot is easy to exploit is wrong at best, ignorant at worst. Imagine if a few elite poker players hook up with a few elite programmers, and they have the hardware to back up what they can create, look out. A bot could 100% be programmed to base decisions on (nearly) unexploitable "random" play which could include reads, table dynamics or 'feel', etc. Poker players tend to have a way of exaggerating how complicated the game is that they play (i'm not arguing that it's simple). To what extent this has ALREADY happened, I don't know. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
I think a lot of players are taking this issue too lightly. Look at what bots did to online chess/backgammon for $$$. Yes they'll get better and better over time. Also, most importantly is that fish wont want to play if they know it's bot infested. Who cares if the hud users / skilled players / pros have a $2/hour-table advantage on them. we need the fish!!!
I would bet there are much much more than just 4 bot accounts out there. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
Please, specify if you are talking about limit poker or big bet poker, or tourney big bet poker.
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Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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I do CS and have done a lot of research into poker bots / research in the area and can safely say that within the next two years heads up limit will be practically solved by poker bots, shortly followed by limit ring. NL however is a different beast and I and many others can't see a world class bot being developed for at least 5-10 years. [/ QUOTE ] This is correct. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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However unlike something like chess where the best chess bots are much better than the top human players, my guess is that the best human players will still be better than the top bots. [/ QUOTE ] That's largely an irrelevant consolation if bots become good enough to beat mediocre players and prevalent in the online poker community. That would be an end to the poker economy, once the bots became good enough that a top player cannot beat them for significantly more than the rake. |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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[ QUOTE ] I do CS and have done a lot of research into poker bots / research in the area and can safely say that within the next two years heads up limit will be practically solved by poker bots [/ QUOTE ] This is correct. [/ QUOTE ] goddamnit |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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any solid player should be able to exploit a bot easily im not worried [/ QUOTE ] not the point |
Re: Bots and the future of online poker
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any solid player should be able to exploit a bot easily im not worried [/ QUOTE ] Some solid players are |
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