The UltimateBet Issue
 

Mods, can you please sticky this? I think this is the proper place for this because it affects us high stakes players the most. Additionally, while I think it might still be more appropriate in the internet forum, let's stick it in both to get this issue more attention because it is absolutely ridiculous. I'm x-posting this from my blog on cardrunners also. I really think we have a lot of well-known players on this forum, some with strong relationships with UltimateBet, who can band together and get something done.

Rather than IM a bunch of you, I think it'll be easier if I post this in a public place where others who I might not know will also get to read this. I think most of you know this, but for those who don't, ever since neteller stopped accepting US customers, UltimateBet has been extremely shady about cashouts.

They have asked well-known long-time players, some who have had accounts with them for multiple years and have deposited and cashed out hundreds of thousands of dollars, to send them verification of their identity and address such as utility bills, drivers license, etc.

On top of this, they have refused cashout requests for players and made up excuses such as "those funds originated from a transfer. please transfer them back to the originating account". This is actually the bigger issue. They need to understand that without neteller and an easy way for players to get money on and offline, swap transfers (ie. i'll send you $x on PokerStars if you send me $x on UltimateBet) are extremely common and often the easiest way to move money around from site to site. For them to not allow me to cashout money despite extensive play just because I used a swap transfer to get the original funds into my UltimateBet account is pretty ridiculous.

I think we need to do something about this. I don't know the management of UltimateBet personally, but hopefully Taylor, others, and I can band together and get this issue addressed.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

i agree, mods please sticky this

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

Ultimate Bet is definitely shady. Link I agree this should be stickied to warn HS players. It took me about a month of to finally receive a wire transfer from them and they repeatedly cancelled the cashout without so much as an e-mail.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

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i agree, mods please sticky this

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Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

i agree emil... sticky?

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

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I agree, mods please sticky this

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Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

this is p3achy: i agree as well

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

Very annoying, this really needs a sticky imo.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

i haven't had any serious problems with UB cashouts though things can get annoying. i think you need to give specifics here, i also have no heard of anyone else having problems.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I also play there and have never had any problems with cashouts...up until about a week ago. I withdrew some large sums via check and basically still been waiting on them.

One of my original checks for a previous cashout got lost in the mail? Or [censored] up in their system? Bottom line is I didn't receive it so I asked them to cancel that check and wire to me or put it back in my account.

All these issues are still pending for me so I haven't seen any shadow of the money. I am rather worried but I hope all goes well.

Also, I have a wire transfer that is supposed to come through Monday. As you can see I've exhaused all avenues of cashing out available.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

jmx, i got a couple of checks from them. at firs tthey told me it was only 4-7 days. then a couple weeks later i told them i wanted to cancel it (figuring it was lost in mail or something went wrong) which they said they could only cancel if i physically possessed the check. then 3 weeks later i got an email saying checks take 3 weeks and i also received the check. bank wires have gone flawlessly for me, gl toou.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I dont play there because I have heard these horror stories for a looong time. Similar to Prima horror stories which made me withdraw from there (right before they completely stopped allowing US players - yay). Good luck guys. I know the games might be good there, but these things really should make people weigh the difference in games between UB and a place like Stars and think about where you want to keep hundreds of thousands of dollars online. Not saying I want you fools in my Stars games...

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I'm also in the 'had 0 problems cashing out many large checks from UB then the most recent one i cashed out is nowhere to be seen despite waiting longer than usual' camp.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I know I had said I would not post here any more, but obviously this situation is different. I am extremely concerned about my money at UB. Until recently, I had had no problems. However, my latest cashout (which was for a large sum (six figures)) has been a total mess.

I made the cashout request on April 19th. At that time, I received an email saying that my cashout has been processed. On May 9th, I received ten different emails, each of which was saying that a check for 12000 is being sent (the last email was in the amount of the rest of the balance).

I had not received anything until three days ago. During that time, I wrote multiple e-mails to them and kept getting responses in which they said they changed payment processors, and that it can take 4-6 weeks, etc.

Three days ago, I received two checks. One for 5000 and one for 2500. Neither amount was one of the amounts indicated in their e-mail to me. I wrote them about this, and their response was: "we are sorry you are having problems, but once your cashout request is sent to our payment processor, it is out of our hands." WTF???

So basically, I have received 7500 of my more than 100K cashout, more than 6 weeks after my request, and as far as the balance, "it is out of their hands."

I was already concerned, but now that I hear that others are having problems as well, I am extremely worried that they might be making off with our money now that their site is losing so much traction.

I am wondering what course of action we should take now. I don't know what to do, but I agree with whitelime that we should band together and do something. Perhaps threaten (or actually take) legal action?

I will be out of town with no internet access for three days starting in a few hours, but I will come back and check this thread on Monday night.

Samo

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

sounds like they are having lots of problems with this new payment processor.

and i dont think whitelime's issue, about not being about to withdraw money without first having made a deposit is super standard for sites, before and after the bill, right?

another thing
 

I used to have a VIP contact at UB: a guy whom I and the other high rollers could contact via phone, e-mail, or IM. I periodically checked in with him just to inquire about the general health of UB. However, about a month and a half ago, he simply disappeared. He did not answer phone calls or e-mails, and the IM was discontinued or disabled.

When I asked UB about that in an e-mail, they said that they cannot comment on anything regarding specific employees. I asked them for a new contact or a new phone number where I could speak with a representative - and they simply refused.

This is pretty scary.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

just a MSNL'er here, but a month or so ago they wouldn't let me cashout cause of some "you recieved this money through a transfer" bs. I had made some transfers yeah, but I put in a fair number of hands afterwards. And like a shiteload of hands beforehand, the account is like 3 years old

So I created a new account, and transfered all my money into it :/

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I wrote this letter after seeing this thread, hopefully they will respond with something:



As one of the players who plays a huge amount on your site generating a ton of money every month for rake, i have to say that i dont like what i have been hearing about your cashout problems.

Here is a thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post10610262 , from 2+2, the internet's largest poker discussion forums, talking about the countless problems that people have had using your cashout services. Lots of people including myself are worried since we keep a great deal of money on your site. I suggest that one of your managers or site operators respond to this thread, bc if myself and other players dont feel like their money is safe we will simply play on one of several other sites that can execute payouts in much shorter periods of time. pokerstars and full tilt poker both have waiting times of less than a week for most cashouts.

We would like to continue playing on your site, but if these and other similar problems keep showing up in an increasing amount, then we may be forced to do the prudent thing and put our money on a site which we know will be safe and secure. Please respond to that thread, as well as to my email asap.

thanks,

AngrySunbear

-----------------------------------------------

In the past, I have only received prompt responses from UB when using threats, so hopefully this will elicit a quick response.

Maybe other people could write letters too?

Hope this helps.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

[ QUOTE ]
just a MSNL'er here, but a month or so ago they wouldn't let me cashout cause of some "you recieved this money through a transfer" bs. I had made some transfers yeah, but I put in a fair number of hands afterwards. And like a shiteload of hands beforehand, the account is like 3 years old

So I created a new account, and transfered all my money into it :/

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems obvious to me you will have the same problems when you try to cash out from this account....

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

Sunbear, I wrote a similar letter to them as well. I also indicated that as a writer for Bluff Magazine, I would write an article about the newfound unreliability at Ultimate Bet. I even hinted at the possibility of a number of players banding together and seeking legal action. Hopefully that will spur some positive action.

I urge the rest of you to write letters to UB as well.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just a MSNL'er here, but a month or so ago they wouldn't let me cashout cause of some "you recieved this money through a transfer" bs. I had made some transfers yeah, but I put in a fair number of hands afterwards. And like a shiteload of hands beforehand, the account is like 3 years old

So I created a new account, and transfered all my money into it :/

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems obvious to me you will have the same problems when you try to cash out from this account....

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, looking back on it my solution to the problem was pretty stupid

however, I recently withdrew 4k into Neteller (lol ok maybe not smart whatev). They gave me the 'random security check' or whatever, but I sent in a scan of my passport, driver's license, and recent bank statement, and the withdrawal went through no worries

Attempting another 4k withdrawal as we speak...

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

posted in the internet thread too:

lots of ppl have had no problems with ub. ive transferred 10s of thousands. i swapped for my 20k+ neteller balance on ub. in the last 6 monthes, ive made numerous 10k cashouts (by check) and a 20k. even did a bank wire for 5k.

no problems whatsoever.

further, tho we hear lots of alarming posts on here, i can not remember one instance where the situation was not resolved, albeit often in an unprofessional and lengthy process.

if ub is such a rogue, untrustworthy site, it would be a great service to accumulate evidence and link to posts in which the individual was indeed ripped off (or continues to allege so) in the end.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

victor-

i agree.

thx for posting that.

it really just seems like they are stepping up security measures for cashouts and having problems with the 3rd party payout site.

we'll see how they respond to the letters that were/are being sent to make sure things are just slow as [censored], and nothing else.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

Victor,

I think that the most recent issues - perhaps involving a change of payment processor - are at the crux of the matter. What is going on NOW (as in the past 1-2 months) is much more troubling and serious than the random unprofessional dealings and such in the more distant past.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

"What is going on NOW (as in the past 1-2 months)"

samo, i requested a check in early may for 20k and have recieved and cashed it since fwiw. also, in the last 2 monthes i have indeed transferred combined over 10k with multiple differnt ppl.

anyway, im just relating my experience so far. i certainly agree that the situations described are at least very troubling and hope everyone successfully recieves their funds.

i am reducing my roll to a minimum on ub at his point (which is becoming easier and easier due to my results/play [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img])

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

victor, ill ship you 20k ub for 20k stars. let meknow

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

greg, i dont think you interpreted my post correctly. perhaps you didnt read my last sentence as well.

i told my story but am not vouching for ub.

i would like others to come forward with their experience as i do think its a very serious issue.

UB response
 

when faced with my threats of writing about this in Bluff and/or taking legal action, UB responded immediately. Here is their response:

Dear XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting us.

We apologize for the inconvenience, again. Due to the recent anti-online gaming laws, we have had to change our check processors multiple times. We understand your concern, especially due to the large amount of your cashout, and hope that your check will reach you successfully. As you probably already know, checks can take up to and sometimes greater than 6 weeks from the time of completion to reach you. If you haven't gotten your check(s) by that time please write back to us and we will place a stop payment on your check.

As you probably are doing, please keep close track of all your transactions, the ones that arrive and the ones that may not. We thank you for your patience at this time and understand your frustration. Please let us know what checks you need to have re-issued and we will forward your inquiries to management.

We also respectfully request that you give us a couple more weeks to resolve this issue before writing about such matters in Bluff Magazine.

Please do not hesitate to contact us back if you require further assistance or additional information.

Best regards,

Re: UB response
 

good enough for me, for now. (assuming we dont hear of any stories in the near future.)

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

Absolute has done something similar to me. I recently tried to withdraw my entire account which i had worked up from an initial transfer. They refuse to let me make ANY withdrawals until i first make a cash deposit!

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

Has anyone had better experiences with a bank wire? Either to your bank or (this would be cool) to say the Bellagio in preparation for WSOP/Vegas activities?

Also, anyone have a way to PHONE UB? I just want to be able to talk to a live UB representative or even a live chatroom online. Blueman, PM sent.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

jmx, i did a bank wire when they initially offered. i since tried another and they told me they had disabled that option.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I just tried a bank wire withdrawal last week. I got a phone call from someone at UB a couple days ago, saying it was processed and will be in my account on either Friday (today) or Monday.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I don't understand why a sticky would be needed. but anyways, I had this problem at first all they said I needed to do was to use a method and make a deposit then cash out using that medium. might take a while to get set up but I'm sure its worth it...

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

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Attempting another 4k withdrawal as we speak...

[/ QUOTE ]
Dear Sir/Madam,

Upon verification of your play history, we see that you are requesting a withdrawal of $4,000.00 and this amount was not accumulated from game-play. The funds come from transfers from other players.

Our site is audited by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission, thus we cannot be seen as any kind of banking facility. Please note that the transfer option is in the game to enhance your gaming experience and to provide associated players, who do not have alternative deposit methods, a means of funding their account. The transfer option is not to be used as a means of withdrawing from another players account.


who the f is the Kahnawake Gaming Commission?

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

I am surprised you guys continued playing on UB.

Re: The UltimateBet Issue
 

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I am surprised you guys continued playing on UB.

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samoleus was assured that his money was safe in the royal bank of scotland, remember?

this does suck a lot and i hope this thread means you guys will get your money back. neteller's a big enough beat for most of us.