PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

Aight had been playing pretty well, not getting my nose involved in too much...

The villian is a well-known player in the online Hold 'Em circuit...He had been raising quite liberally at the FT, I called one of his raises with A289ds when I was on the button and he was in the cutoff and whiffed the flop...Orbit before this hand had folded A386, A high hearts when he again raised in the cutoff...Had played with him when we were still 4 tables and did see him muck to a reraise preflop...What does everybody do here?

RESULTS TOMORROW...

PokerStars Game #10159624468: Tournament #51170354, $20+$2 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level XVIII (6000/12000) - 2007/05/29 - 00:09:40 (ET)
Table '51170354 33' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: lock1andload (108211 in chips)
Seat 2: < curAAcum > (133854 in chips)
Seat 5: mattg1983 (230070 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO (132475 in chips)
Seat 7: ragaly (34869 in chips)
Seat 8: deadmike81 (79630 in chips)
Seat 9: floydbob (87891 in chips)
ragaly: posts small blind 6000
deadmike81: posts big blind 12000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fedigan221 [3s Ac Jd Kh]
floydbob: folds
lock1andload: folds
< curAAcum >: folds
mattg1983: raises 24000 to 36000
HERO: ???

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

Your hand plays well both ways, for me its either fold or raise pot. Personally, I would raise if I was confident he was not raising AAXX, it would be an easier decision if your hand wasn't rainbow. It would really irritate me if he flat calls your reraise, which he may do with plans of putting you to the test on the flop for your last ~50k hoping that you missed.

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

hmmm.. has he folded if anyone has come over top of him?

You've got 11bb.. if you call and have to fold you've got 8. I think this is an option.. if I were to do this I'd be willing to get it in pretty light though.. as in top pair. So maybe reraising would just be a better idea, that way you prolly have some fold equity.

I say if u want to gamble, shove.. if you want to try to wait it out a little you have the chips, everyone is similarly stacked.

Flavius: he isn't going to have 50k left after a reraise. A pot reraise is almost going to put him all in, about 12k left.

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

I would fold here. AKJ3 rainbow is not good enough to risk an entire tournament on 7-handed.

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

Even if you know that the villian's range for raising is quite wide? He's gonna have to have a really good hand to think of calling off 65% of his stack to this reraise...

NOTE: I'm not an idiot and I know that hand values in this game run quite tight...

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

What about the 2 guys acting after you? If you raise are you confident you'll be heads up with the Villain? Or if you raise will they call you with crapola? If you call, what's the likelihood one of them raises? Either of them shown any inclination to take on the Villain?

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

On reconsideration I think a repot/push here is OK (though I'm still not sure I would do it myself). Villain doesn't need to fold very often to make this worthwhile. Let's say 20% of the time villain folds (+54000 for you), 50% of the time you're in a 50/50 situation against a hand like A455s or A267s, and 30% of the time you're a 60/40 dog to a hand like A2QQs or AA48s. This makes the play +EV to the tune of about 5K chips. But the odds of elimination are also something like 30-40%, and I'm not sure the small positive expectation justifies the risk at this point in the tourney. Of course the expectation is also very sensitive to my assumptions; if the guy is going to fold 35% of the time it looks a whole lot better...

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

Since I was 2nd/3rd in chips and acting on the button I was fairly certain that this raise would get me HU with the villian...I would say we were about 20+ hands into the final table and I had played with the other 2 at other tables...They were not looking to get involved at all especially since if I would reraise they would be basically have to be calling their stacks off...

EDIT: Most of the players were playing extremely passively and were only raising with 1234 or AAxx...None of them had shown any inclination to take on the villian...Also in considering reraising here I was thinking in terms of the way the final table would play out...I was the 2nd most aggro at the table next to Matt, but he was FAAAAAAAAAAAAR more aggro than I was because he was getting to open the pots before I had a chance to...

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

Bbart that was the analysis I was doing in my head when I was considering what play to make...I was pretty sure that I could get the villian to fold a hand like A455 since I really hadn't showed any propensity to get out of line when reraising preflop...Like I said, I was thinking if I reraised I could get the villian to fold any raggedy A3-A5 type hands and low mixed bags (6432, etc) and POTENTIALLY get him to fold a ragged A2 although I don't know if he would or not...And I wasn't too worried if he called with a ragged A2 in that spot because I liked my hand playing against a ragged A2...As somebody had previously mentioned I woulda like it a whole lot better if I was at least singly soooooted...

EDIT: I think that in considering coming over the top of your opponent that you have to know that you can make your opponent fold some of the time or else this is just a glorified coin flip in my eyes, which is just chip spewing especially when you are 2nd/3rd in chips...I would have never thought of making this play if I didn't think there was any shot of my opponent not folding...

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...WITH RESULTS
 

HERE ARE THE RESULTS:

Wasn't too bad, only ran into the 2nd best hand in O8...LOL...

I actually didn't consider my chip position at the time I made the play which was probably a huge mistake, but I just had eyes on winning the thing anyway so anything less than 1st didn't interest me...But here's my thought process...I figured I had fold equity in the hand...Like I said he'd have to call off 65% of his stack to play his hand and I thought I could force him to laydown some junkier hands...I knew the blinds most likely would not call in this spot unless they had AAxx because they would be calling off their tourney lives and they were quite passive...If I didn't come over the top of him here I knew he would just keep pounding on me and the rest of the table with raises...I figured if I won the pot outright great and if he called I probably wasn't in too bad of shape against his range, PLUS I think I get the added benefit of him thinking I'm a little nuts to be putting all my money in with that type of hand and it may slow him down a little bit because he knows I don't have to have AA (which pretty much everybody else at the table would have to have) to put him to the test for a large part of his stack...

I've had this hand on my mind ever since it happened and I still am coming to the conclusion I would have played it the same way against this particular opponent given what he had been doing earlier...I could be wrong and I know I coulda probably folded and coasted my way to another couple hundred bucks or so, but I was going for the $1500 for first...

PokerStars Game #10159624468: Tournament #51170354, $20+$2 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level XVIII (6000/12000) - 2007/05/29 - 00:09:40 (ET)
Table '51170354 33' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: lock1andload (108211 in chips)
Seat 2: < curAAcum > (133854 in chips)
Seat 5: mattg1983 (230070 in chips)
Seat 6: Fedigan221 (132475 in chips)
Seat 7: ragaly (34869 in chips)
Seat 8: deadmike81 (79630 in chips)
Seat 9: floydbob (87891 in chips)
ragaly: posts small blind 6000
deadmike81: posts big blind 12000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fedigan221 [3s Ac Jd Kh]
floydbob: folds
lock1andload: folds
< curAAcum >: folds
mattg1983: raises 24000 to 36000
HERO: raises 90000 to 126000
ragaly: folds
deadmike81: folds
mattg1983: raises 104070 to 230070 and is all-in
HERO: calls 6475 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [7c Th 7d]
*** TURN *** [7c Th 7d] [7h]
*** RIVER *** [7c Th 7d 7h] [Ks]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mattg1983: shows [2h Ah Ad 4d] (HI: a full house, Sevens full of Aces)
HERO: shows [3s Ac Jd Kh] (HI: three of a kind, Sevens)
mattg1983 collected 282950 from pot
No low hand qualified
nadatell [observer] said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 282950 | Rake 0
Board [7c Th 7d 7h Ks]
Seat 1: lock1andload folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: < curAAcum > folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: mattg1983 showed [2h Ah Ad 4d] and won (282950) with HI: a full house, Sevens full of Aces
Seat 6: HERO (button) showed [3s Ac Jd Kh] and lost with HI: three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 7: ragaly (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: deadmike81 (big blind) folded before Flop

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

Your Ace isn't suited which makes it a little weaker but it seems like villain has raised from the CO multiple times and you have folded. Also, he has the SB and BB covered by over 2:1 in chips, and since they haven't been compelled to get involved with him he might be trying to steal. This is a tough spot. If you call, you're risking 27% of your stack with position on villain. So I don't hate a call here because:

1. His range of hands is wide.
2. You have position (most importantly).
3. You have a while before the blinds come around to you.
4. If the flop doesn't hit you and you fold, you'll still be 4th in chips with a chance to still make the money where anything can happen.

This may seem passive, but if you re-raise and he jams you are either folding and going to the short stack, or pushing and gambling with villain.

AC

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

I thought about just calling here, what with Hero having position. The problem I have with it is that with this particular hand, seeing the flop will only rarely give you a clear indication that you should fold (assuming villain c-bets). Two or three cards come low, you have 2nd nut low (or 2nd nut low draw) - are you going to fold on the assumption that villain has A2xx? Cards come two high one low and give you one pair or maybe OESD with backdoor low - now what? I don't think you can fold there either. The number of flops where you save yourself by being able to fold is IMO outweighed by the fold equity of the preflop reraise.

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

I think your decision should be pretty simple as far as the villain goes. I would be more worried about the people still left to act. I wouldn't mind seeing a flop heads up, but I would hate for it to be mutliway.

If I thought it was unlikely that anyone else would tag along, I would just call. If it was one of those tables were people always want to see a flop for one bet, no matter how much of their stack it costs them, I would just raise him preflop, assuming of course that I felt my hand was good against his range.

Thats just my opinion, maybe I'll change my mind after I read the responses.

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

I just hated calling here, because even though I have position on the villian he WILL bet pot into me on the flop no matter what comes...He did it on a flop of J96, 2 spades when I had A982ds...I really, really thought he was making a move, but I didn't have spades and if he did with a Jack I'd be in horrible shape...

BBart's logic here was kinda what I was going with...What do I do with a flop of 84T? I can't call a continuation bet that the villian makes with my hand...I most likely would call his continuation bet on a J95 flop and probably would reraise him there...

I really think that the decision here is to reraise or fold...I think folding is just waaaaaaaaaay to weak against this particular opponent and given the blinds play which was very, very, very, very tight...And like I said even if he does call I wanted him to see that I'm willing to make him play for his entire stack with a "marginal" hand, which I would hope would slow him down a little bit because with him always having action before me I couldn't be as aggressive as I wanted...

I'm definitely not saying I'm correct here, I think there are merits in reraising or folding but I think that calling (while not a horrible play) is the 3rd option...I asked the guy if I woulda made him laydown a non-premium hand but he never responded...If I couldn't get him to laydown then folding becomes the better play IMHO...

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

I can't see a fold to a reraise-push here considering how much he'd have invested.

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

Are you kidding? He only has 36K of his stack in this pot, if he folds he is still the chip leader at 200K...This is the first time at the table that anybody has stood up and played back at him...If he has a ragged A3/A4 or a mixed-bag of low cards getting involved in this kinda pot would be stupid because he can just go back to running over the table since it was so passive...

Re: PLO8 $22 MTT on Stars...
 

I repot this without thinking too much about it.