Verbal Attacks
 

Two incidents happened this weekend at Foxwoods 10/20 LHE that surprised me.

1) Floor is having words with a new player at our table. I ask Floor whats up. He tells me new player wanted seat at other table but he thinks a guy at our table jumped in front of him. I tell the new guy that the guy who took the seat at the other table had wanted to move for over an hour. He says back to me that he wanted his seat at this table and the woman who took it was behind him on the list which sounds like a different issue. Meanwhile another guy at the table tells me to "shutup and mind your own business". I told him that I wouldn't shut up and he had no business talking to me that way. So the guy who tells me to shutup has it out for me - and we isolate each other a couple of times. I take him down both times, no words, he leaves table. He comes back later, still no words, then he leaves for other table.

2) Next day I'm raising LP with AJo. I get reraised by SB. A notorious loose passive player calls in BB. Flop is QT8r a double belly buster for me. Turn is a blank. I call flop and turn bets. River is a 9. Its checked to me and I bet. SB folds. BB calls. I flip the straight and after I take in the chips, the SB, a solid man outweighing me by at least 40 lbs. with a military like buzz cut who is sitting two seats from me, leans towards me full of rage and spits out the word "Fish" rather loudly. I'm stunned and do the first thing that comes to mind - which is suck in my cheeks, pucker my lips and make a fish face moving my lips like the fish that I apparently am (hey at least I didn't say "Glub glub glub want to join the club?"). He turns beet red and I think a moment too late that I am about to get beaten to a pulp. Then instinctively I tell him I'm on an open ended straight draw (I meant a belly buster but I was flustered). And he mumbles something like "yeah on the turn" which was flat wrong. I get corrected by a couple of others at the table who try to point out I did in fact have a double belly buster draw on the flop. Meanwhile he is continuing to harangue me about being a fish and sucking out blah blah blah. The guy two to his left, a serious fish, tells him to be mindful of rule 4 (don't criticize another player's strategy) and to let it go. About half an hour later buzz cut raises pre-flop w/ QQ and gets re-raised by AKo. Flop is Axx turn a blank and river a Q giving him the suckout set. I turn to his end of the table and say "Officially I have no comment". 3 hours later buzz cut leaves and apologizes to me having realized I did nothing fishlike on the hand he was just reacting to having his Aces cracked. And I apologize back to him for my juvenile behavior. In retrospect I wish I had not justified my play and just let him think I was a fish. I also think baiting him was not a good idea...

Any comments on my behavior would be appreciated. Also, is it surprising that the dealers said nothing in both instances?

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Any comments on my behavior would be appreciated.

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I doubt you will appreciate my comments. My first thought about halfway through your post was, grow up. You really made a fish face at another alleged adult? WFT? Sounds like you really have some issues.

Remember, Poker doesn't build character but it definetely exposes it.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Any comments on my behavior would be appreciated.

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I doubt you will appreciate my comments. My first thought about halfway through your post was, grow up. You really made a fish face at another alleged adult? WFT? Sounds like you really have some issues.

Remember, Poker doesn't build character but it definetely exposes it.

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Heh Fish face is a GREAT come back and he should have said the Glub Glub Glub want to join the club.

I think steams just kidding though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If not he can play at my table anytime [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I have all sorts of annoying things that would have him tilted before he played a hand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

Just ignore it. No response is always the best response. Or, a very, very feint smile.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Any comments on my behavior would be appreciated.

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My first thought about halfway through your post was, grow up. You really made a fish face at another alleged adult? WFT? Sounds like you really have some issues.

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I thought the fish face was the best part of this tale. Gotta love a realtime under stress display of extemporaneous humor.

Not so good was the choice of folks to aim it at. OP is gonna get his teeth handed to him someday with that sense of timing.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Also, is it surprising that the dealers said nothing in both instances?

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Yeah, it's the dealer's job to teach people manners.

From what I've read about Foxwoods here, if a dealer had to speak up every time a player did something that showed a temporary (or possibly permanent) loss of sanity, he wouldn't have time to deal poker.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Just ignore it. No response is always the best response. Or, a very, very feint smile.

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That's what i do, the very faint smile. Like "hey, i'm hearing all the dumb crap you are saying, but your life isn't worth my toenail, so i'm not responding."

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

Making a fish face..? Grow up is right!
Who cares, keep your manners and dont get involved in discussions with obvious low brain powered individuals.. what's the point? It seems that you're in the habit of wanting the confrontations [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Any comments on my behavior would be appreciated. Also, is it surprising that the dealers said nothing in both instances?

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No, this isn't part of the dealer's function and petty insults at the table are standard. Even if a situation required the house to get involved, the floor would be the person, not the dealer.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

I think its funny, but you've got to anticipate the reaction of others. In the end, what you did was very counter-productive. The best most profitable table is a loose, happy, gambling table. When individual players get into these little spats with each other I think its negative EV, and can have a real impact on the way the game plays out. And additionally, if I want an unpleasant time I can go to work.

and the dealer can't possibly police this stuff. The best way for him or her to do so is just difuse it with humor but you can'r expect them to keep the game moving and play kintergarten teacher on every hand.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

This is a perfect example of the downside of TV poker. Yes, TV saved poker but it pretty much killed good manners.

Bav is right about one thing though, OP needs to make friends with a facial reconstrucion surgeon if he is going to agitate people that clearly aren't wrapped very tight.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

lol re: glub glub glub.

Totally standard and common grouchy table griping here. Happens aaaaaaall the time.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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I think its funny, but you've got to anticipate the reaction of others. In the end, what you did was very counter-productive. The best most profitable table is a loose, happy, gambling table.

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As in, not the Foxwoods 10-20.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Two incidents happened this weekend at Foxwoods 10/20 LHE that surprised me.

Next day I'm raising LP with AJo. I get reraised by SB. A notorious loose passive player calls in BB. Flop is QT8r a double belly buster for me. Turn is a blank. I call flop and turn bets. River is a 9. Its checked to me and I bet. SB folds. BB calls. I flip the straight and after I take in the chips, the SB, a solid man outweighing me by at least 40 lbs. with a military like buzz cut who is sitting two seats from me, leans towards me full of rage and spits out the word "Fish" rather loudly. I'm stunned and do the first thing that comes to mind - which is suck in my cheeks, pucker my lips and make a fish face moving my lips like the fish that I apparently am (hey at least I didn't say "Glub glub glub want to join the club?").

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Suckout? Ok. I guess buzzcut doesn't play online. Oh well. Good move. I raise any day on that spot. You have such good odds of hitting your hand. Its not a bad hand to call a raise and defend your blind. I'd do it. Can't wait to go to Foxwoods. You guys will love me. LOL.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Any comments on my behavior would be appreciated.

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I doubt you will appreciate my comments. My first thought about halfway through your post was, grow up. You really made a fish face at another alleged adult? WFT? Sounds like you really have some issues.

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Yes I do have some issues. After 18+ years of therapy and 21+ years of Al-Anon I am still a work in progress. My issues here are related to growing up with an alcoholic verbally abusive ultra critical rageful father. This guy hit the trifecta with his one word. I felt criticized, embarassed, intimidated/afraid, and ultimately angry. And my quick reaction stemmed from subconsciously feeling like I had to defend myself as a small child against a powerful man. Back then I used my sense of humor and tried to make the other person feel what they had just made me feel - because in my house we weren't allowed to talk about our feelings. Kind of like giving them a taste of their own medicine - which is ironically a tradition adopted from native americans.

So I thank you for your comments, I do appreciate them. They made me think through the emotional aspects of the situation and awareness is the start of addressing these issues.

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Remember, Poker doesn't build character but it definetely exposes it.

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My goal in life is to act with integrity, decency, and compassion. I am not perfect. When I am out of line I try to learn by admitting my mistakes and making amends. In this case my amends will be to try to think before reacting in situations like this. I will stand up for myself (as I did in the first incident) but I will take more care to be less offensive. Perhaps, next time I will have the peace of mind to ask him if he would prefer that I play better!

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Any comments on my behavior would be appreciated.

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My first thought about halfway through your post was, grow up. You really made a fish face at another alleged adult? WFT? Sounds like you really have some issues.

[/ QUOTE ] I thought the fish face was the best part of this tale. Gotta love a realtime under stress display of extemporaneous humor.

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On behalf of my sub-conscious, my conscious thanks you.

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Not so good was the choice of folks to aim it at. OP is gonna get his teeth handed to him someday with that sense of timing.

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Yes - I see that now. And it is true he could easily have kicked the crap out of me. The only way I know how to fight is Cool Hand Luke style... I will take your implied advice and stop being such a master baiter.

On another note I want to thank you for your response here Bav and your considered responses throughout this forum. I get a lot from them.

And I want to thank everyone else who took the time to respond as well.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

cool story...the one thing that i'll say is that i was very mad (over getting aces cracked or not), and you made a fish face at me, that might push me over the edge...

just sayin'...

that said, i think it's hilarious that you did it. i'm just glad you didn't do it to me, but make no mistake, if i was at the table, i would've laughed pretty hard...

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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I thought the fish face was the best part of this tale. Gotta love a realtime under stress display of extemporaneous humor.

Not so good was the choice of folks to aim it at. OP is gonna get his teeth handed to him someday with that sense of timing.

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agreed totally, that's i was getting at on both levels...if i would've read the thread, i would have just quoted that...

extremely funny, clowned the [censored] out of him, but be careful who you embarrass when they're mad..

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Perhaps, next time I will have the peace of mind to ask him if he would prefer that I play better!

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I did something kinda similar(*). I've decided that next time that happens to me, I'm going to say "I'm still learning." Which is true... and sort of a triple-reverse-psychological comeback that nobody will quite know how to take. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

(*) The story I posted, somehow(?) got moved to the German BBV forum -- which is kinda funny. Maybe I should learn how to say "I'm still learning" in German?!?

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

Next time tell the guy to go [censored] himself. You won the hand no matter how well (or badly) you played it. Unless you're a professional, there's no reason to take crap at the table for EV.

BTW, I'm storing up the fishface. Of course, my nose has been broken 7 times and I'm 6'9" 280. Thanks for posting!

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

Hi Rick. Nice to meet you. I was villain in scenario #1. Here's my version of what happened:

Floor had just closed the conversation with the agitated player by asserting that they were going to drop it, relatively politely. Player had shut up, but was still really pissed about it and was definitely going to go off if anyone talked to him about it.

You asked the floor to give you details on the situation, loud enough for me, on the opposite end of the table, to hear you. This is straight up retarded as it only serves to fan the flames. If you really wanted to know, you should have left the table, pulled the floor aside, and asked him discretely.

FWIW, I shouldn't have told you to shut up: nothing good can come to me as a result of that -- you won't change your behavior, and my image gets shot to hell. When I learn to control myself in these spots things will be a lot easier for me.

I can't remember the exact hands that we played after that. I think you sucked out on me once and I got caught bluffing once, but the table was pretty dismal and I wasn't confident in my play at that point, due to the stress of dealing with you and things seemed pretty taggy there, so I left. FWIW you seemed like a pretty solid player, but small sample size of course.

In the future, both of us should try to just let the floor deal with stuff like that.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Also, is it surprising that the dealers said nothing in both instances?

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Dealer just deals and does a few other things. The floor is generally the person who's supposed to look after those instances.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

lol edit to brag: the next 10/20 table that I sat at, I left because it was too tough. I think I went home and napped or something, and then that evening managed to luckbox like $1k playing 1/2 NL. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Of course, my nose has been broken 7 times and I'm 6'9" 280. Thanks for posting!

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Wow...
Ok -
1) Keep your hands (and forearms, of course) up
2) I don't know why that wouldn't protect someone of your size, but if that's no good, you wanna start aiming for the balls or throat, and getting it to the ground right off...

Just sayin'...

To OP...don't let these guys bug you. It's hard to get beat up badly in a casino.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

If you need it you can always call me 24/7 and I'll stop by and kick you in the nuts.

In the first case, kick them in the nuts and then ask them "could you repeat that please?"

In thesecond case, I might suggest caution when the guy you've just rivered is a large man of possible military origin whose neck veins are visibly throbbing.

Al

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

"shutup and mind your own business"

This sounded like solid advice...

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

LMAO at the fish face. I wish I was smart enough to think of things like that.

To the people critizing the fish face and calling it immature....LMAO also. Nits.

Kudos to David C for recognizing where he was right, where he was wrong, and making ammends for those areas where he was wrong. No ones perfect, but it never hurts to attempt to improve oneself.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

I loved the fish-face. Granted, I'd probably only consider doing it when I thought my opponent was calling me a fish in a more joking manner. Doubtful, I would have done it to this dude though.

You can fyp my post by removing the word 'doubtful' and inserting, "no way in hell".

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I was David C all along?

OP: dude, you were worried about upsetting a Canadian [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

first scenario, you should shut up and mind your own business. It's really rude to ask details of a situation in front of someone who is involved and upset over the situation.

second scenario, I think the fish face is hilarious, you should just leave it at that. nothing wrong with a little back and forth after a hand, especially when the other guy calls you a fish.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...opyle/glub.gif

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

See my post "Nice F-ing Play" for another way to handle this type of thing.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

Situation 1 - Just stay out of it. None of your business and will only lead to aggravation.

Situation 2 - Your fish face response was funny as hell. well done.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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The story I posted, somehow(?) got moved to the German BBV forum -- which is kinda funny. Maybe I should learn how to say "I'm still learning" in German?!?

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For some reason I find it hilarious that your thread got moved to German BBV when it is neither German nor BBV.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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If you need it you can always call me 24/7 and I'll stop by and kick you in the nuts.

In the first case, kick them in the nuts and then ask them "could you repeat that please?"

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lol yeah this becomes a much easier play once you know who villain is. I'm like 5'11", 165 or something.

Re: Verbal Attacks
 

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Hi Rick. Nice to meet you. I was villain in scenario #1.

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Nice to meet you too. I'm hoping one less nemesis to worry about.
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Here's my version of what happened:

Floor had just closed the conversation with the agitated player by asserting that they were going to drop it, relatively politely. Player had shut up, but was still really pissed about it and was definitely going to go off if anyone talked to him about it.

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I'm not sure why this is a problem. A guy who goes on tilt before he plays a hand? My kind of player.
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You asked the floor to give you details on the situation, loud enough for me, on the opposite end of the table, to hear you. This is straight up retarded as it only serves to fan the flames. If you really wanted to know, you should have left the table, pulled the floor aside, and asked him discretely.

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Admittedly, my voice carries. I was actually trying to be discreet. And if I want to be told to shutup and be called retarded I don't need to travel 2 hours to play poker. I can just knock on my daughter's door and ask her how school was.