Where to start
 

Before I ask my question, I would like to give a short introduction. I have been playing poker for two weeks on Pacific Poker, PartyPoker and PokerStars, the last is my favorite. I invested 20 dollar on each website. After playing a lot of hours, eventually I lost all that money. It looks like I have to make every mistake myself once, before I learn how to avoid them.

I want to improve my game before depositing more money on PokerStars. So I have been skimming poker book reviews on amazon.com. I have come to know that there are various good books on poker, but that makes it more difficult to pick one book to get started with. From the books listed, which one should I study first?

Harrington on Hold'em (1,2,3)
Super system (1,2)
Little Green Book
Theory of Poker
Hold'em Poker for advanced players
Small Stakes Hold'em
Low Limit Hold'em, Lee Jones
Poker for Dummies

I know that I have to fold a lot hands preflop and that I have to start at the lowest limits. I actually lost my money on the higher stakes no limit games. It is not my question which book is the best. I simply want to know where to get started.

Re: Where to start
 

The "Harrington on Hold'em" books were a really great start for me, giving enough practical advice to get started in poker.

Re: Where to start
 

The first thing to do is to decide what type of game you wish to play.

Are you looking to play limit or no limit, cash games or tournaments?

If you are planning on playing limit then either The Lee Jones book or Ed Millers "getting started in Hold Em (i personally prefer Jones's book as it gives more information about post flop play) would be a great place to start followed up with Matthew Hilgers book Internet Texas Holdem.

If you want to play tournaments then the Harrington On Holdem book would be a good place to start. Some people recommend reading this book for cash games too as the early stages of tournaments often share similar conditions to cash games.

There isnt really a definitive cash game book for beginners to no limit.(yet) And as i dont really play it i am not sure which one to recommend.

Another option may be Ed Millers book "getting Started in Hold em" which gives an introduction to limit and no limit games.

Re: Where to start
 

Definitely Getting started in hold 'em.

After it, for NL cash games:
Little green book
No limit hold'em theory and practice

Maybe Harrington vol 1 before little green book.

Re: Where to start
 

I have been playing different games, but as a beginner I think I should limit myself to low limit Hold'em ring games for a while. I do have Lee Jones' and Matthew Hilgers books on the book shelves. I'll have to order getting started in Hold'em. Thanks for the suggestions.

Re: Where to start
 

If you have lee jones and hilger, then you are set to go


But if they are too advanced for you, then getting started by miller or beginners guide to limit hold'em by jacobs are both good

Re: Where to start
 

I would recommend playing no limit instead of limit.

Re: Where to start
 

I don't play limit, but if your are looking to play any No Limit Cash games I would say Supersystem, Theory of Poker, and No Limit Hold Em Theory and Practice will help you a lot. Super System's best attribute for NL is how it helps you learn to play AA KK QQ, small pairs and suited connecters. One of the biggest ways that people lose money in NL is overplaying the big pocket pairs. Doyle gives flop situations that could occur with the big pairs and recommends a pretty solid strategy on what to do. For instance if a paired board comes and you bet the flop big and get called, he recommends checking on the turn. Just a lot of advice to save you money with your big cards when they don't connect. He also gives a lot of advice about how to play on a draw and power poker and such. I would recommend staying away from that advice in the book as a beginner. You'll be getting all your money in way too often as the underdog if you play his advice on drawing hands or just 1 pair like Doyle sugests.

Theory of Poker is a great book for all kinds of poker. You will pick up all kinds of excellent concepts and strategy for all sorts of poker that can apply to whatever game your playing in. Profitable concepts such as the semi bluff, positiion and how it affects the value of your hand can be learned.

NL Hold em Theory and Practice is my favorite No Limit book so far. It really helps you learn to think like a poker player should be thinking throughout an entire hand. If NL is your game, make this the second or 3rd book you read on the subject because as a beginner you probably would comprehend the stuff enough to fully make use of the book and use it to your advantage.

If you play tourneys you can't go wrong with Harrington. I haven't read any other tourney books, but Harrington will definitely give you a solid approach as a newby on how to play them as best you can. I doesn't advocate an Ivey, Negreanu, Hansen style or anything like that, but it does give you a solid foundation as to how to play hands at all kinds of stages in a tourney. Hope this helps you out a little in your decision.

Re: Where to start
 

Thanks for elaborating on the different books, gmcarroll33.
I like NL, because if you do get a good hand you can really milk your opponent. But as a beginner, I haven't developed the discipline yet to play this game. I did grow my bankroll with limit poker up to 60 dollars, but playing in a few tournaments and in NL ring games ate that money up. At one table, I had many good hands, but people were re-raising me all-in every time. I called a few times and lost big parts of my bankroll. I hope to be able to play NL in the future, after mastering the low limit games.

I think I'll start studying a few books in this order.

1) Internet Texas Hold'em winning strategies, Matthew Hilger
2) Winning low limit Hold'em, Lee jones
3) Theory of Poker, David Sklansky

Then I will be playing 0,02/0,04$ games, with a bankroll of 400BB. After "graduating" the micro limits, I will study this book to play at the low limits:

5) Small Stakes Hold'em, David Sklansky

At the same time I will also start playing 0,02/0,05$ NL games and $1 to $2 tourneys. To be competitive in those games, I'll study:

6) Harrington on Hold'em (1,2,3)
7) Super System
8) Tournament Poker, David Sklansky

8).. I will decide in the future which books to add after this.

Does this sound like a good plan?

Re: Where to start
 

I think you should just start playing nl now. Maybe use the short stack strategy first (from getting started in hold'em).

Re: Where to start
 

What are the reasons to be playing NL from the beginning? From my personal poker experience, which is not more than two weeks, NL Hold'em is a dangerous game compared to limit poker. I have heard that you need to learn to walk, before you can run.

Re: Where to start
 

i'd like to know lucksack's logic as well; he seems almost adamant that you start playing NL, a game which, as you say, can be financially hazardous to the fledgling player.

I feel that with a mere two weeks of poker experience, you'd be better off starting with limit, for the following reasons: (1) the number of good hold 'em books is disproportionately skewed toward limit (because it is a far easier game to analyze and understand). (2) A small stakes limit game allows you to play longer for less money. Usually you aren't in danger of going busto in one hand, so your stack (if you lose it) will dwindle more slowly. You will thus gain more experience with less monetary risk.

Re: Where to start
 

I'll give you a completely different answer. Avoid hold 'em altogether.

Online limit games, even at low levels are extraordinarily tough. There's no reason for a person who hasn't previously invested the time to start playing either limit or NL cash games today.

Learn Stud, Stud 8, O8B, HORSE or other overlooked games. Play one table at a time. Read the available lit, Ray Zee, SSII, Theory of Poker, etc. and blaze your own trail.

Hold 'em, especially limit games, is no longer the low hanging fruit of the poker world. If you're motivated by profit in cash games become an expert in other forms of poker.

Re: Where to start
 

That sounds like good advice, hold'em is probably over hyped by television. On one side that brings in more fish, but on the other side it also brings more sharks. I have only been playing Hold'em for the last two weeks. I don't think I'll avoid it altogether, because I like it. But I shouldn't overlook the other types of poker. I have read in a part of Super System to be like a fox and learn different poker games.

A question about draw poker. Is there any skill involved in that game? I accidently ended up in a draw poker tournament online. It looks like luck is a bigger factor than skill in this game. Even more online, because you can't look people in the face. I did finish second of nine people.

PS. Is there any software that can track results from different games, separated by type of game (ring, tournament, sng etc.), pokerstyle (Hold'em, Stud, etc) by limit (NL, pot limit, limit) and by stakes?

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]
PS. Is there any software that can track results from different games, separated by type of game (ring, tournament, sng etc.), pokerstyle (Hold'em, Stud, etc) by limit (NL, pot limit, limit) and by stakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Poker Tracker offers various versions for the different games.

Poker Tracker is an amazing tool and should be an automatic purchase for anyone who has ambitions to play seriously.

Re: Where to start
 

Thanks!

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]
That sounds like good advice, hold'em is probably over hyped by television. On one side that brings in more fish, but on the other side it also brings more sharks.

[/ QUOTE ]I play HE because that's where the fish play. There are far more HE games than any other form of poker, and there are more fish than sharks for sure.

As a game I prefer Stud, but (recently at least) it is easier to make money at HE.

Re: Where to start
 

Definitely learn limit first. It would be crazy to jump into no limit games without a good deal of experience first.

Re: Where to start
 

Get Getting Started in Hold'Em then read Harrington I. At that point if you want to get into NL cash, read Little Green Book, all the uNL stickies, sign up for CardRunners and get all their low limit series videos, play atleast 1,000 hands a day, and post atleast two of YOUR trouble hands a day.

Re: Where to start
 

NL cash seems to be the most profitable game, so unless there's a good reason, should concentrate on that. Also, this is good for a beginner: http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/c...r-made-simple/

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]
Get Getting Started in Hold'Em then read Harrington I. At that point if you want to get into NL cash, read Little Green Book, all the uNL stickies, sign up for CardRunners and get all their low limit series videos, play atleast 1,000 hands a day, and post atleast two of YOUR trouble hands a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that include the hands I fold, or do you mean that I have to see the flop that many times a day? Thanks for the tip on cardrunners.

[ QUOTE ]
NL cash seems to be the most profitable game, so unless there's a good reason, should concentrate on that. Also, this is good for a beginner: http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/c...r-made-simple/

[/ QUOTE ]

With larger profit more risk is associated. At this stage I do not want to take higher risks than what I am taking with the micro limits. When I become better at this game, I will definitely start playing NL.

Re: Where to start
 

The first poker book I ever read was Hilger's ITH. Good book, solid advice, very easy to digest, and it will most likely turn you into an instant winner at small/micro-stakes online hold'em.

Small Stakes Hold'em by Sklansky/Miller/Malmuth is your limit hold'em Bible. By far the best book out there on the subject, as it not only tells you what to do in numerous examples, but also walks you through the why (and gets you thinking along the right lines to develop your game even further). Some of the advice in it seems counter-intuitive at first (raising a flop bet when you know your hand isn't best??), but trust me, as you implement that style of play into your game & begin to grasp why these seemingly unorthodox moves are correct, you will quickly see increasingly good results.

Theory of Poker is a must-read for anyone playing any version of poker.

Hold'em for Advanced Players is also a good book, but I'd steer clear of that for a while as you get the basics down. Many of the concepts that this book is geared towards simply don't exist at the stakes you're playing now, and it's very possible that reading the book at this point would just confuse you & hamper your development. The same goes for another excellent LHE book which you didn't mention, "How Good Is Your Limit Hold'em?" by Jacobs & Brier.

Re: Where to start
 

No you just need to be dealt 1000 hands a day, but study ALOT before you start playing or you'll be misapplying concepts.

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]

With larger profit more risk is associated. At this stage I do not want to take higher risks than what I am taking with the micro limits. When I become better at this game, I will definitely start playing NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

NL actually has less variance than limit. Especially when you begin, since you can play ultratight at the micro/small stakes games, while still making good profit. Even with very tight play you should have a bankroll of at least something like 15 buyins to play. You can loosen your game a little when you get more experience (be careful not to play too loose still though).

You would probably regret not taking my advice later if you waste your time playing limit (since your clear goal is to become an NL player).

Re: Where to start
 

If you're going to play NL you should read Largay's book.

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]
NL actually has less variance than limit.

[/ QUOTE ]Mistakes, however, are more costly. The lower variance is applicable to the experienced player who can induce big mistakes from opponents that simply isn't possible in limit.

Not saying you shouldn't start with NL (I did), just that a beginner should not expect it to have lower variance since he won't initially have the skill to avoid big mistakes.

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]

You would probably regret not taking my advice later if you waste your time playing limit (since your clear goal is to become an NL player).

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that NL might become the main source of my poker earnings in the future. I do not want to limit myself to NL, I am eager to study every type, including limit and pot limit.

When I played NL last week I won a pot of $12 in a 0,25/0,50 game. But I was also stupid enough to call a re-raise when I had great cards against a loose opponent who was all in everytime, but a few times when I had called him, he had better cards. I lost a big part of my bankroll this way. Everytime he was all-in and I had great cards, I had a very difficult decision to make.

The reason why I want to start with limit Hold'em is that the downswings in my bankroll will be lower. That gives me more space to make mistakes and learn from them. I have added 16 dollars in my account, which is 400BB in 0,02/0,04. The profits aren't large, but my bankroll is going up steadily with 50 cents to a dollar everytime I play for an hour.

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]
The first poker book I ever read was Hilger's ITH. Good book, solid advice, very easy to digest, and it will most likely turn you into an instant winner at small/micro-stakes online hold'em.

Small Stakes Hold'em by Sklansky/Miller/Malmuth is your limit hold'em Bible. By far the best book out there on the subject, as it not only tells you what to do in numerous examples, but also walks you through the why (and gets you thinking along the right lines to develop your game even further). Some of the advice in it seems counter-intuitive at first (raising a flop bet when you know your hand isn't best??), but trust me, as you implement that style of play into your game & begin to grasp why these seemingly unorthodox moves are correct, you will quickly see increasingly good results.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your suggestions. I am reading Hilger's book and I think it is a great introductory book that will help me a lot to speed up my learning curve. Although, the section on odds and probability annoys me a little that it isn't written in an organised manner. I will study the two books by Sklansky that you mentioned as soon as I finish Hilger.

Re: Where to start
 

[ QUOTE ]

Not saying you shouldn't start with NL (I did), just that a beginner should not expect it to have lower variance since he won't initially have the skill to avoid big mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

How hard can it be to avoid big mistakes?? Just fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold...

Also, remember not to play too big game compared to your bankroll.. You should probably also deposit enough money so that you can start from at least nl10.

Re: Where to start
 

Only looking at the literature so far, reading the first few chapters of HOH1 and of Hilger's book, I prefer Harrington. I made a list of limit books and a list of NL books from what I have available. I am inclined to start with NL, just because of the quality books that I have on the subject:

Harrington on Hold'em 1,2,3
Doyle Brunson, Super System
Phil Gordon, Little Green Book
NLHTAP
TOP

Re: Where to start
 

I downloaded a pack with a lot of poker ebooks via an online sharing website. This gave me a opportunity to check some books out before buying.

I am not going to read these downloaded ebooks, because it is bad for my eyes to read so much on the computer, and I want to be fair to authors who wrote the books and buy some hardcopies. Because I live in the Netherlands, I want to order a big pack of books once to limit shipping costs. Here is a list of books I want to order.

Any other must read books?

Small Stakes Holdem
Holdem Poker for Advanced Players
Harrington on Holdem 123
Phil Gordon Boxed Set, Little Books
Super System 2
Theory of Poker
Poker for Dummies
Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players
High Low Split Poker.... For Advanced Players
Holdem Poker for Advanced Players
No Limit Holdem for Advanced Players
Psychology of Poker
Zen and the Art of Poker

Any recommendation where to order, amazon or bn?