TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

- Villain (SB) = 58/8/0.5
- I saw him limping with all kind of starting hands.
- If the pot was raised preflop, he donked like 75% of the flops.


Party Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero ?

What should be my play here? In my opinion; folding is not an option....


Bye,
Ivar

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

If folding is not an option for you (I agree, based on your read), I'd call down. If you make your flush on the river and he checks, I'd make a bet.

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

[ QUOTE ]

In my opinion; folding is not an option....


[/ QUOTE ]

Again you say this. Unlike the hand I responded to first with the KK I think this one folding should be an option.

[ QUOTE ]
]- Villain (SB) = 58/8/0.5


[/ QUOTE ]

These stats are much different. Yes he is limping a lot of hands, but what kinds of hands is he getting agressive with. Cause those stats tell me he limps a lot but raises a pretty tight range preflop, and is pretty passive postflop. So I still raise the donk if that's something he allways does in raised pots, but when he comes at you again on the turn you have to think more about his hand range and not just call him down. Just cause someone is loose preflop, even uber-loose preflop does not mean they don't have a hand when they donk you twice and I would almost be willing to bet money he had a Q or 2 clubs. I fold the turn, call me weak but those stats don't warant a call down to me.

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

what does the flop raise accomplish? What was your action if he checked to you?

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
what does the flop raise accomplish? What was your action if he checked to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Chased out SB? Flop raise is gOOt, especially in light of OP's read on SB's action in a preflop-raised pot, and it should be a c-bet if checked to.

As it is, you're HU. You're getting 3.5:1 to calldown. Given the read about how he plays flops, the turn donk on the scare card is suspect, so call. Bet the river if checked to.

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

With the raise at the flop you obviously don't put him on a queen, so what would he bet with at the flop? perhaps mid pair or flush draw? In this case he made his draw, he might even have a queen.. I don't think fold would be a terrible option..

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
what does the flop raise accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding out a possible 3-6 outer from CO

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What was your action if he checked to you?

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Bet, not close.

As played: With the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I don't fold here. What to do when he bets a non-club river is the only real question here IMO.

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

he has a .5 af but he's donking 75% of flops? i dont get it. With that low of an AF i probly fold. How do you figure a "calls raise" range? guess you need his defend stats. I just got stove so id be happy to do the math. Whats his defend sb stats ?

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

calls ldo....

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

Given that you get to the turn in the first place I don't see how folding is even a consideration.

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

I think folding should be an option. Donks that donk twice in a row usually have something better than middle pair...

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think folding should be an option. Donks that donk twice in a row usually have something better than middle pair...

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a draw. It isn't great but you're also heads up. And donking twice does not guarantee a great hand, I see people do it with bottom pair all the time.

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

I think folding is not an option, bacause i'm Heads Up against a loose donk;

In the long run, I think he will show me an ace of clubs, a low pair or some other draw more often than a queen, a straight or even a flush. Why sould he donk a queen again on the turn? wouldn't he 3-bet that on the flop? If he had a queen, wouldn't he c/c the turn then if called the flop?)

Ivar

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

Ivar.. you still never answered my below questions.

[ QUOTE ]
what does the flop raise accomplish? What was your action if he checked to you (on the turn)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

Sorry Bravos1,

My flop raise was to let fold CO, to let SB pay more for his draw?, low pair?, bluff? and get it HU with him. If it was checked to me, I would definitely make a cbet. You don't always have to fear if an overcard comes on the flop. A lot of people think; oh he donks the flop -&gt; he got to have that Q.

Ivar

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

As played up to the turn.

Think you fold the turn. You need 7 clean outs to be profitable and you don't have them.

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
As played up to the turn.

Think you fold the turn. You need 7 clean outs to be profitable and you don't have them.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point there are 11 bets in the pot and 12 once the hero calls the turn. If he only has to call 1 more bet on the river at most to win a possible 12 then isn't it work just check-calling it down as the villian is a fairly loose player who could be betting on bottom or middle pair?

Re: TT in BB vs donk, with overcard on board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As played up to the turn.

Think you fold the turn. You need 7 clean outs to be profitable and you don't have them.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point there are 11 bets in the pot and 12 once the hero calls the turn. If he only has to call 1 more bet on the river at most to win a possible 12 then isn't it work just check-calling it down as the villian is a fairly loose player who could be betting on bottom or middle pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

[nit]There are only 6 bets in the pot when hero has to call one on the turn.[/nit]