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- Small Stakes Shorthanded (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24)

- - 1/2 River spots (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=403968)

Button has 3bet me before with A5s, A8x and some other hands that did not make it to showdown.
Loose aggressive postflop.

Is this an easy value bet? Notice that my kicker does not play anymore.
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, Button calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9.5SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.75BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks

Villain seems Tag. Our first encounter HU.
Easy value bet? Once he called the turn alarm bells rang inside my head.

Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero

BB is
Preflop: loose
Postflop: ??

Limit: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks

Re: 1/2 River spots

1. its close. KQ and KJ along with Kx club hands are in his range. you'll miss value from Tx, breakeven against Ax, save against Kx, and win against flush draws (which he rarely has).

2. gotta bet.

3. stop rivering like me. i bet this because he can have a 4 or 8 (K8, 8x w/ clubs, etc).

Re: 1/2 River spots

1. I check-call. I think you split or lose a vast majority of the time here.

2. Bet-fold seems correct, but I'm not really sure what he plays like this that we will extract value from. Two very possible draws just came in, he did not raise the flop, and he called even after the Ace hit. Sure seems like a draw...

3. Betting here is hoping he has either A2, A3, A5, 4x, 8x, or a PP. Maybe he's even bad enough to call with K hi. Does this out weigh the times he might bet here with a missed draw? If he seems passive it's a bet-call, but if he's likely to take a stab at the pot with a missed draw I could see a check-call too.

Re: 1/2 River spots

In Hand 2, I don't think you're beating enough hands anymore. Well, unless your TAG opponent is the super-suspicious type.

Edit: Well, all right, there is KJ and QJs. But that river card is such an obvious draw-completing card, and if I'm going to lose, I'd at least like to take some satisfaction out of watching my opponent whiff on a checkraise if he does have KQ [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. (A completed flush seems pretty damn unlikely, though.)

Re: 1/2 River spots

Miles, how does betting hand 1 one gets you value from flushdraws?

1) I check/call.

2) I honestly have no idea. *edit* for some reason I forgot we are in position and thus have the option to check behind. I'd do that, not enough value in a bet imho.

3) I bet. I can see why some would advocate a check/call but too much value in a bet here imho.

Re: 1/2 River spots

The thing about Hand 3 is that since Villain is "???" postflop, if I'm betting, I'm calling.

And, actually, that's probably what I'd do. It's getting to the point where my default read on loose players is "LAG."

Re: 1/2 River spots

In Hand 1, the annoying thing is that a flopped gutshot that backdoored trips seems entirely possible.

You're beating QQ/JJ and possibly some other hands if Villain is LAG enough preflop with hands other than just Ax and/or is stubborn enough postflop. But I think check-calling is fine here, especially against a postflop LAG who make take your check as an invitation to bet 44 or something.

Re: 1/2 River spots

[ QUOTE ]
Miles, how does betting hand 1 one gets you value from flushdraws?

[/ QUOTE ]
all that stuff i said was what checking does. checking gains from busted flush draws when they bluff the river. checking misses value from Tx.

Re: 1/2 River spots

there are pretty much no flush draws in hand 1 he can have that dont beat u, QJ KQ KJ all beat u (altho QJ would raise the turn). What other hands is he 3betting preflop that flop a flush draw esp with the T being a club?

hand 1s really hard and i have no idea what to do, i wish we could just ck fold but i ck call for the chop i guess.

hand 2s an easy bet fold, tons of value from worse As, Jx usually pays off once it gets to the river and sometimes worse pairs T9 also ect

hand 3 i bet but if he ll auto fire any missed draw and peel JT all the way to the river i doubt theres much of a difference between betting and ck calling

Re: 1/2 River spots

1. ck-call - trying to induce the bluff

2. check - instinct was to say bet-fold but the hands we beat that are calling: A7,A9,QJ,KJ and less likely QQ,KK - but there are a lot more hands thaat we are behind

3. bet-call - value is thin here especially if we call any raise so I think ck-call is ok too

Re: 1/2 River spots

I think hand 1 is a bet/fold unless button is tricky or erratic.

Hand 2 is close, but I think it's one of those very thin check behinds. Plus, even if you're giving up a little EV, finding that sick check behind when villain was going for the check/raise is just awesome.

Hand 3 is a bet/fold versus a loose/passive, but a check/call against a semi-competent or better opponent.

Re: 1/2 River spots

Check/calling looks good in hands 1 and 3 IMO. And I like bet/folding in hand 2.

Re: 1/2 River spots

I'm thinking that the mixed opinions in this thread indicate that these are tough hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: 1/2 River spots

Hand 1 is a check. KQ/KJ look entirely consistent with his play, and with your kicker not playing, you're really only collecting value from like JTs/QTs/JJ/QQ, which isn't that many hand combos and might not call a river bet anyway. There's also a small chance that he has something like 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and will make a desperation bet on the river if you check (and he might even make that bet with a JTs type of hand).

In Hand 2, it's kinda tough to put him on a hand. There aren't many flush draws for him to have unless he has K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] exactly. KQo is certainly possible, but would have required some rather thin peels on the flop/turn. AJ would certainly have given you action by now. AT is possible, certainly, though IMO the play with that hand is to bet-call the river rather than going for the check-raise.

His representative hand is probably QT, which had a gutshot on the flop, a double-gutter on the turn, and has now rivered a pair. Would he make a hero call with that hand? If not then I'd probably check behind. On the other hand, if he's a station or he's seen you iso-raise with 66 or something than I'd bet. BTW, I think it's a fold if you bet and are raised, though you will be folding the best hand occasionally.

Hand 3: Check and hope to induce a bluff from JT or a busted flush draw.