3s everywhere!
 

3-handed table. It just broke from 5 handed perhaps 6-8 hands before this one. The villain in SB is playing far too aggressively and villain in BB is trying his best to adjust to SB's action, and is doing sort of okay.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero...

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

Call, hope SB treys. Then jam the turn.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

Hero calls ahead hoping the two villains will keep it up and raises/caps any turn card.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

3bet. you'll get more action than by using the much scarier wait-for-the-turn line.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

With SB playing so agressively and BB raising the flop, is there anything wrong with calling BB's flop raise and waiting for the turn to raise ?

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

3-handed i just 3bet it now; they won't believe us anyway given your reads and the state of the game and if we coldcall and pop the turn (BIG HAND ALERT LOL) even [censored] might get it.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[censored] = dumba$$es btw, ftw, ldo

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

What you say is often/usually valid but in this situation I think the pot gets bigger if we let them punch themselves out a little. Maybe even wait for the river if they seem still aggro on the turn?

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

This one depends for me. If SB and BB have been fighting back and forth the last 10 hands or so it might look like you're finally trying to fight back (and could come off as doing so lightly). I'd raise here if that's the case.

If you think SB and BB can go into their raising war and forget about you along the way, call and get into the action on the turn.

On the other hand, we open-raised pf, so 3-betting the flop implies overpair or set, easier to shut down for opponents.

I'd call and jam turn.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

probably doesnt matter what you do. if anyone can read hands a flop coldcall means you have an overpair at least, but BB will never check a blank turn if he has a pair. if SB will coldcall 2 more on the flop with 43, you really, really need to 3-bet now. but you don't know this so you can't know what to do, which is why it probably doesn't make a big difference.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

I 3bet. I don't think anyone will put you on a set now and if BB is trying to adjust to an overagro SB, he may be capable of thinking that you're doing the same, potentially putting you on overcards. The turn may kill your action if it's an A/K or if someone is going crazy with overcards/draw themselves, especially a T9/T7/54 type hand that the agro SB may cap the flop with and lead the turn potentially putting us in the same position on the turn with extra bets going in on the flop.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

One of the driving factors in my decision was putting BB on a hand range for betting this flop.

Also, regarding Miles' comment:

[ QUOTE ]
if anyone can read hands a flop coldcall means you have an overpair at least, but BB will never check a blank turn if he has a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a flop coldcall in this spot looks much more like a stubborn AK than it does an overpair or better.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a flop coldcall in this spot looks much more like a stubborn AK than it does an overpair or better.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this on the flop. But if you wake up on a non A/K/Q turn, it doesn't like like AK/AQ at all, although you win because if SB/BB has a pair, there is a good chance they won't fold it 3 handed.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]

Also, regarding Miles' comment:

[ QUOTE ]
if anyone can read hands a flop coldcall means you have an overpair at least, but BB will never check a blank turn if he has a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a flop coldcall in this spot looks much more like a stubborn AK than it does an overpair or better.

[/ QUOTE ]
if so, they aren't good at handreading. two overs get folded 100% of the time on this board. so my statement stands.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

3 bet, add a little deception into the hand. I am pretty sure SB will lead out on the turn after you do that. Waiting till the turn is too obvious

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet, add a little deception into the hand. I am pretty sure SB will lead out on the turn after you do that.

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure he'll rarely ever do that.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, regarding Miles' comment:

[ QUOTE ]
if anyone can read hands a flop coldcall means you have an overpair at least, but BB will never check a blank turn if he has a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a flop coldcall in this spot looks much more like a stubborn AK than it does an overpair or better.

[/ QUOTE ]
if so, they aren't good at handreading. two overs get folded 100% of the time on this board. so my statement stands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it depends on who you're trying to read. Against a lot of bad players, I read a flop coldcall on a ragged board after a preflop raise to be two overcards, and it's often right. But you're right that a good player isn't ever coldcalling here with naked overs.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

I'd jam this baby

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
probably doesnt matter what you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
3bet. you'll get more action than by using the much scarier wait-for-the-turn line.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Because if I'm either one of the Villains and Hero 3-bets here, I know he has at least TPTK and probably no less than an overpair. Whiffed overs are not three-jacking this ugly-ass flop.

I smooth-call this. The OP reads said that the two Villains have been dick-waving since the table got to three-handed. I say let them have their pissing contest; if we're really lucky, it will go raise/cap behind us, and then go bet/raise on the turn. Then we trey that mug and suddenly they're stuck in a 10+ BB pot drawing thin if not dead.

If we're going to give away the strength of our hand, anyway, I'd rather do it on the big-bet street.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

I posted this hand because I'm not really big on slowplaying, but I felt like this was a good time for it. Here's how it played out:

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (12 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Qd 8s (three of a kind, eights).
Hero has 3h 3c (full house, threes full of eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 16 BB. </font>

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

3bet the flop -- its 3 handed, i'd figure 8x would play like this, or T9 or something similar -- im sure they would not expect you to have 33.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3bet. you'll get more action than by using the much scarier wait-for-the-turn line.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Because if I'm either one of the Villains and Hero 3-bets here, I know he has at least TPTK and probably no less than an overpair. Whiffed overs are not three-jacking this ugly-ass flop.

I smooth-call this. The OP reads said that the two Villains have been dick-waving since the table got to three-handed. I say let them have their pissing contest; if we're really lucky, it will go raise/cap behind us, and then go bet/raise on the turn. Then we trey that mug and suddenly they're stuck in a 10+ BB pot drawing thin if not dead.

If we're going to give away the strength of our hand, anyway, I'd rather do it on the big-bet street.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-handed you're not giving away that much strength by 3-betting. If you're opponents are at all decent though, just the cold call itself is scary.

Again, because it's 3-handed and you have positon, a 3-bet from a whiffed big slick is plausible.

It's just going to take these guys a lot longer to figure out that they're screwed if you 3-bet up front. On average I'd wager it'll even get you more bets in the latter rounds.

What hands are you even considering cold calling here that aren't monsters?

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
What hands are you even considering cold calling here that aren't monsters?

[/ QUOTE ]

A whole lot of (combo)draws come to mind...

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hands are you even considering cold calling here that aren't monsters?

[/ QUOTE ]

A whole lot of (combo)draws come to mind...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure. I think if AW has overs here (like AK or something), if he's going to continue 3betting is much better than calling. I think you can get SB to lay down any pair that might have you reverse dominated, or any overpair. I also would expect you to be 3betting monsters here too (AA, KK) or even A8.

Basically, I'm suggesting you play draws and monsters the same way, and I'd rather 3bet them both than cold call both here.

EDIT: I know that sounds contradictory because I said cold calling represents strength, but I think 3betting also puts more pressure for SB to fold any gutshot semibluff (which we'd give correct odds to by cold calling) or in the case that we did this with overs, we might push SB off a small pair like 8 or 6 or 99 or something, which would be awesome if we held AK or AQ or something.

Re: 3s everywhere!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Basically, I'm suggesting you play draws and monsters the same way, and I'd rather 3bet them both than cold call both here.

EDIT: I know that sounds contradictory because I said cold calling represents strength, but I think 3betting also puts more pressure for SB to fold any gutshot semibluff (which we'd give correct odds to by cold calling) or in the case that we did this with overs, we might push SB off a small pair like 8 or 6 or 99 or something, which would be awesome if we held AK or AQ or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Besides the fact that top pair or an overpair will basically never ever ever fold at these stakes, there simply aren't that many draws available to be worth 3-betting. If you had 97s or T9s with a backdoor flush draw I can see 3-betting it, but that's really about it.

Against a villain who is obviously too aggressive, I think a coldcall makes it more likely that hero is being suspicious of aggro-villain, but doesn't want to make it an expensive pot for himself. And since he doesn't want to make it an expensive pot, his hand is generally weaker than it would normally be to make such a coldcall.